Wheel Build

[oaklandhillsca]

I currently have a 2001 Serotta Legend Ti with Ksyrium SL SSC's. The max tire width the bike can accommodate is 25mm. Instead of buying a new bike I want to do a wheel build and am wondering if I will see improvement.

Considering the following:
Rim – DT 411 (Tubeless compatible)
Hub – DT Swiss 240 28 hole Front Rear (upgrade to 54 ratchet)
Spokes – Sapim Race 14-15 gauge double butted black
Nipples – Sapim brass black
Rim Strips – RWW base tape
Lacing pattern – 28 hole 2 Cross spoke pattern Rear - 24 hole 2 cross spoke pattern Front

From peoples experiences - will this build ride differently form the Ksyrium's - and if so, how?

Thanks in advance for your input.

[AngryScientist]

nah, i wouldnt bother, unless you just want a different set of handbuilt wheels. the wheels you are describing would likely be heavier than your current wheels, and if your frame maxes out with 25's on skinny ksyrium rims, you may not even fit a 25 on the wider internal rim you've got in mind.

ksyrium SL's are pretty nice wheels.

[Brian Smith]

Originally Posted by oaklandhillsca

I currently have a 2001 Serotta Legend Ti with Ksyrium SL SSC's. The max tire width the bike can accommodate is 25mm. Instead of buying a new bike I want to do a wheel build and am wondering if I will see improvement.

I think you would notice a change in the ride, and depending on your taste, you might find it to be an improvement.
If you're on the high side of typical rider weight and/or like to lean and turn aggressively, you'll likely find that your new wheels flex more in those conditions than the "Ks." One person's "comfort improvement" can be another person's "flexy." The change in tire age and design, in addition to the wheel build itself, will probably have you notice a reduction in ride buzz. I'm guessing that's the kind of improvement you're after.

[XXtwindad]

Just got done climbing up Lincoln/Joaquin Miller to Skyline. Sweat-a-thon!

[oaklandhillsca]

Brian - you bring up some good points I should have covered. I am low/mid 170lbs. I don't ride aggressively in turns. Something I have been working on for the last 15 years, so I don't think that will change. I am curious if new build will spin up faster then the Ksyrium hubs. I usually do 20/35/50 mile rides with 2k-3.5k in climbing.

Angry - I tested the proposed build with 25's and they fit with some room, so good to go there. thanks.

This is an itch, but have yet to pull the trigger.

[Clean39T]

Without sounding too shillish, you should just buy the HED Ardennes Plus SL wheelset I have posted in the classifieds. They are light, wide, and ride great - plus 25s and even true 28s may fit your frame since they spread more on the rim. And at my asking, you can try and resell without much if any risk... Just a thought.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

[oaklandhillsca]

XXtwindad - up Joaquin Miller is a beast. I used to do that, but now take Butters and meet up at Skyline near Redwood. Just did, Butters/Pinehurst yesterday.

[Ddub66]

I just had wheels built with the DT 411s but with White Industry hubs. I had a similar issue to you in terms of limited width because of narrow and shorter chainstays on my Moots road bike. My old wheels were Fulcrum 3s which were prob 10 years old. I do like the new wheels but honestly, i'm not convinced it was worth the cost. They look good but they're certainly not a game changer in terms of speed (i think my fulcrums were faster). They're probably an improvement in terms of handling. I did have a nasty little crash up on Skyline a few weeks ago where i hit a pothole coming around a bend, got a pinch flat and for some reason couldn't control the front end so i ended up power sliding across the road. I've had plenty of flats at speed and never had this happen on my old wheels so wondering if it had something to do with the DT 411s. Or perhaps rider error/stupidity. Definitely making me think twice about descending fast on a road with lots of cracks and holes.

One last thing with these wheels: not sure if it's because i'm running them with tubes, but getting tires on and off these rims is brutally hard. Tire levers are a must getting them off but to get them on, it's a combo of finesse and brute strength. Going tubeless may solve this issue.

Honestly, you might not see a significant improvement over your Ksyriums and you might be better off saving the cash for something else.

[marciero]

What are you using for tires? Tires have the single biggest impact on the ride quality of any piece of gear and unless you are using very good tires you may be able to sweeten the ride considerably.
Part of that could be width, depending on what you are after. But you mention the bike can only accommodate 25. Modern rims are across the board wider so new wheels are not going to fix that for you, as Angry pointed out.

I am also of the opinion that most of us-perhaps the vast majority- will not notice a significant difference in ride quality between wheelsets with different spokes, hubs, and vaguely similar rims, as these are.

[ColonelJLloyd]

I don't really get using those nice hubs and then pretty basic aluminum rims with an internal width of 18mm, basic double butted spokes, and brass nips. This is obviously a fine combo and perhaps just right for your needs, but I'd be inclined to choose a rim with 19-21mm internal width, aluminum nips, and something like a Pillar 1422 were it me, especially since you pretty much just have an itch to build some cool wheels (I can relate!).

I will agree with others that you're not going to notice much difference in what you've spec'd over the MAVICs you're riding now.

[oaklandhillsca]

Marciero - I have new Vredestein Comp Race 25s. they feel good. Switched them from Vredestein 23s about 4 months ago.

With the posts - and my riding style - I may save my money.

Seeing that I have a 17+ year old titanium bike - which I love. I may take the money I was going to spend on the wheel build ($1k) towards a used carbon bike (maybe $3k) and have 2 bikes to compare.

[oaklandhillsca]

Colonel - points well taken. Even though I have been riding a while, I still feel like a newbie. Especially when it comes to a wheel build. Part of the build is looks. I went back and forth on the 240vs350. I will look at the Pillar's.

I have effectively reached the point of paralysis by analysis. Maybe that will save me some $.

Thanks all.

[ColonelJLloyd]

I would probably put the money elsewhere. But, I've definitely built better wheels for myself with no justification beyond "because".

FWIW, I buy black Pillar 1422 spokes (comparable to CX-Ray) for less than $2/ea and cut to 1mm lengths. Pillar also makes a 2.2/2.0/1.7/2.0 triple butted spoke that I buy for $.80/ea. The seller from whom I buy really only dealt with Sapim for a while, but has moved away from them to Pillar because of some recent quality issues and he considers Pillar's Sandvik steel to be better than the Sapim stock.

[Gummee]

I have 2.5* wheelsets built up with pretty much that exact same setup. They're on the gravel bike(s) with 35s on one wheelset, 32s on the other.

I beat the heck out of them and they're still round and true

As a note: the 411s come with washers and DT Swiss' own nipples.

The biggest thing you'll notice over the Mavics is the fact that nothing is proprietary. Break a spoke on a pair of Mavic wheels and you'd better hope they're younger than 5 years old. Mavic doesn't support their wheels after 5 years.

If you're building a disc wheelset, I've been using offset rims on the front wheel to offset the disc offset. Seems to work well.

M

*the 3rd pair's rear isn't built yet. The front is.

[robt57]

Originally Posted by Brian Smith

I think you would notice a change in the ride, and depending on your taste, you might find it to be an improvement.

My first thought as well.

Nothing switching to latex tubes and high TPi count Vitt or other open tubulars probably wouldn't attain at the expense of short lived tires.

+hed ardennes sl clincher wheelset with Plus rims, latex tubes, and the right 25mm tires probably feel pretty good rolling though... Loosing the Alloy spoke ride, something I notice and dislike personally.