LeMond Composites

[Buzz Killington]

Listen, I’ve got a real low IQ. I read the article twice and I don’t understand it. The bikes will be made in the USA, starting this spring, and they still don’t have a manufacturing location set up? Why build bikes, that you hope to sell in mass quantities, in the USA when most/all of the parts suppliers are in Asia? E-bikes? That market is so dynamic right now, good luck with that.

Like others said, you still need to pay for molds, engineering, etc. regardless of where the bikes are made. I would think that the costs for carbon, while still very important, are just a small part of the final equation. Also, if the carbon product hasn’t been sold in to any industry yet, you’re going to try proof of concept in the bike industry? I guess this is bashing LeMond. Sorry. I think I did the same before in another thread about him. Don’t know how I live with myself.

[tomato coupe]

Originally Posted by GregL

Not beating him into submission, just acknowledging that his past business ventures have not always been successful. The best bike racer in modern US history and by all accounts a nice guy. His independent business ventures have not done as well. Time will tell on this one. Hope he does well this time!

Yes, he seems very likable. History shows him to be very litigious, however, and most of his ventures don't end well.

[justinrchan]

Originally Posted by GregL

Not beating him into submission, just acknowledging that his past business ventures have not always been successful. The best bike racer in modern US history and by all accounts a nice guy. His independent business ventures have not done as well. Time will tell on this one. Hope he does well this time!

Greg

I totally agree with this. Granted Trek pulled the plug on his bikes but his other ventures don’t exist now. Indoor spin bikes? Revolution trainer? Steel bike? I’m rooting for him but would be leery of any sustained business.

[Black Dog]

Originally Posted by GregL

Ummm…. don't you mean $250 in profit on each frame to pay for the $1M startup cost? If you're selling the frame for $250 total, you're not going to be in business long enough to recoup your investment.

Greg

Yes. Sort of. I just mean that you recoup startup cost selling 4000 units at $250/unit. No profit etc... Should have clarified that.

[Black Dog]

Originally Posted by tomato coupe

Yes, he seems very likable. History shows him to be very litigious, however, and most of his ventures don't end well.

Well if you mean litigious when Lance had Trek screw him over, then yes. Other than that I am not sure how or why he has been litigious. I like the guy and wish him well and I agree that some of his past ventures have not done very well...and this is true of so many now successful entrepreneurs. Time will tell.

[tomato coupe]

Originally Posted by Black Dog

Well if you mean litigious when Lance had Trek screw him over, then yes. Other than that I am not sure how or why he has been litigious. I like the guy and wish him well and I agree that some of his past ventures have not done very well...and this is true of so many now successful entrepreneurs. Time will tell.

He has been involved in quite a few lawsuits, not just the TREK mess. It just seems to be how he functions in the world.

[Black Dog]

Originally Posted by tomato coupe

He has been involved in quite a few lawsuits, not just the TREK mess. It just seems to be how he functions in the world.

Fair enough.

[adub]

It's saddening when people process something they heard, what other people say, and then the flawed logic that follows when they expound how they know of someones business like it's their own first hand knowledge.

[dbnm]

My knowledge with the Lemond company is first. Ordering a Lemond Washoe was a giant pain in the a$$. Lots of poor communication and chaos on their part. I asked for a certain paint scheme (which I was paying for) and was told that it was not possible until it came out a few months later as "Greg's idea".

Delays in building the bike because they were ordering black (painted) forks from Enve, only to remove the paint to repaint them. I was told they did not know that they could order raw forks.

Anyway, I was them luck. They will make bikes until their attention (or money) us pulled into another direction.

Sorry for the ramble.

[Alaska Mike]

Loved the LeMond Revolution trainer. Have two of them, which have seen a LOT of use over the years. Might be loud, but they're extremely well-made and the "road feel" is second to none.

Bought the Power Pilot, and immediately regretted it. I think the company just lost all sorts of steam around that time, a couple years before the whole trainer market exploded. I think if they had've come out with a quieter version with decent ANT+ integration, they could have been in the mix today. Instead...

Somehow I think this new venture will go along the same lines.

[Fivethumbs]

Lemond wedges were pretty cool.

[Nomadmax]

If I can swing the $, I'm getting one of his new bikes. I've met the guy a few times and I hope he gets rich.

[Mikej]

Originally Posted by fignon's barber

Solution to a problem that doesn't exist. The big brands buy their $8k msrp frames for $250 from their suppliers.

Seems like maybe a little bit off- Most big brands are heavily invested in product development and manufacturing. By your comment, it would seem like suppliers are developing new products on their own and selling for not even a penny on the dollar? Why don’t the suppliers just bypass the big brands?

[Black Dog]

Originally Posted by Mikej

Seems like maybe a little bit off- Most big brands are heavily invested in product development and manufacturing. By your comment, it would seem like suppliers are developing new products on their own and selling for not even a penny on the dollar? Why don’t the suppliers just bypass the big brands?

They do. Giant and Merida are good examples. There are a lot of open mold frames under many different brands and also unbranded frames that can be purchased directly through Aliexpress.

[C50]

I think Greg is already pretty wealthy ($40 million net worth by quick searches and even if that is exaggerated by $5-$10 million I think that still qualifies as doing pretty well) and a good portion of that comes from real estate investments and other business ventures, certainly not bike race winnings. People bring up various laws suits, to my knowledge he has prevailed in all of them (at least the ones I am aware of) which is some indication he was correct in those situations so good on him for standing up for what he believes to be right.

I hope the new bikes are nice and that portion of the business at least sustains itself but I would guess the bikes are because of Greg's passion for bikes. The impact on industrial scale applications for the reduced cost carbon fiber is where the real business and money exists, the bike industry money barely moves the needle in comparison. Aerospace, defense, automotive and wind industries I suspect are the real focus. I don't think it is an exact comparison to Elon Musk and Tesla but the same idea may apply. Since you need to produce a ton of a particular type of stainless steel for your space project you might as well make more of it to reduce the costs by increasing volume and make a crazy looking space age truck to go with it and bring in some cash from over 250,000 deposits, another huge wave of publicity and watch your stock price grow after most people ridiculed you. I am not saying Greg is Elon Musk by any means but since you need to start production of the material anyway it only makes sense to use his name and bicycles as an outlet for getting production started until the real orders of size come in from the intended industries.

I have met Greg a few times, I would never claim to know him (I did spend a night in a bar until 3am with him and Phil Liggett along with a few others after they gave a talk at Stanford many years ago but most of those stories will not be told on the internet) and if I were a betting man which I am not I would put my money on Greg every time.