OT Red Sox - say it ain't so Alex

[veloduffer]

I like the idea of stripping the title and leaving it vacant. MLB should also take away all the World Series rings and bonuses from players and management. Someone want to post that to social media (I don’t have an account.)?


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[unterhausen]

stripping titles has been suggested on social media

[cgolvin]

Originally Posted by EDS

If I were MLB I would fine owners and have the team forfeit draft picks - Hitting ownership's wallet in the short term (the fine) and long term (lack of draft capital can result in a lack of young, cheap talent going forward).

Well this was a prescient comment, did MLB consult you? ;-)

Realistically, the fine is minimal ($5M, maximum allowed), especially in light of the 2018 profit increase attributed to the 2017 championship, which I recall reading was in the $65M range.

In addition, because the Astros will remain a good team they will draft at the back end in the affected years so the lost draft picks are of much lower value.

As a Dodger fan it provides little solace. Maybe the city should put on championship parades, with Dave Roberts riding in a clown car down Figueroa with a papier mache trophy. I especially feel for Kershaw (though he has plenty of other postseason mishaps that one can't attribute to cheating…for now).

[ScottW]

Originally Posted by FlashUNC

The commissioner works at the pleasure of the owners. Spine's got nothing to do with it.

The commish theoretically works for all owners, not just Crane but also for the owners of the teams who got cheated. He is also charged with maintaining the integrity of the game and with player discipline.

And the commissioner made a call to give the players immunity for their testimony, rather than punishments languish in artibitration purgatory for a long time with the union who (rightly) would defend against suspensions for the players.

This was clearly the more expedient route.

Crane and Manfred got their scapegoats in the Astros GM and a couple managers.

Scapegoat is the perfect term for it. This was initiated and pushed by the players, who get off scot free.

Other owners and GMs around the league are suspiciously silent today. It's as if there's an internal gag order in place to prevent further disruption to the business and to bleach the obvious stain left on the 2017 WS.

[XXtwindad]

Originally Posted by ScottW

Here are some home vs. away splits for Astros hitters during the 2017 playoffs (not just WS). These are incredibly disparate numbers as baseball stats go. If these guys were cyclists, they'd be the guys who ride at 2 w/kg in real life but somehow manage 4-5 w/kg in Zwift.

Altuve (bats R):
Home: .472 BA, .513 OBP, 1.028 SLG, 1.541 OPS, 17 H, 6 HR & 12 RBI
Away: .143 BA, .268 OBP, .229 SLG, .497 OPS, 5 H, 1 HR & 2 RBI

Correa (bats R):
Home: .371 BA, .421 OBP, .743 SLG, 1.164 OPS, 13 H, 3 HR & 10 RBI
Away: .211 BA, .231 OBP, .395 SLG, .626 OPS, 8 H, 2 HR & 4 RBI

Bregman (bats R):
Home: .273 BA, .342 OBP, .515 SLG, .857 OPS, 9 H, 2 HR & 6 RBI
Away: .154 BA, .175 OBP, .333 SLG, .508 OPS, 6 H, 2 HR & 4 RBI

Gattis (bats R):
Home: .300 BA, .464 OBP, .550 SLG, 1.014 OPS, 6 H, 1 HR & 3 RBI
Away: .200 BA, .333 OBP, .200 SLG, .533 OPS, 2 H, 0 HR & 0 RBI

McCann (bats L):
Home: .300 BA, .382 OBP, .467 SLG, .849 OPS, 9 H, 1 HR & 7 RBI
Away: .037 BA, .161 OBP, .037 SLG, .198 OPS, 1 H, 0 HR & 0 RBI

Because the Astros ballpark is smaller than most (especially to the left field fence) it could reasonably be expected that batters would hit more homers, and therefore have more RBI and higher slugging and OPS at home vs away. Homers also affect, but to a lesser degree, their batting average and OBP (which includes walks), and it's these numbers that remain glaring despite any differences in outfield fence distance between ballparks. These guys hit better and walked more because they knew what was coming (via center field cameras and/or using replay systems to decode signs and relay them to batters in real time) so they could gear up for fastballs and spit on the breaking stuff.

There are also some batters whose splits were even and not the least bit suspicious (Gurriel). The obvious [potential] explanation being that he was less dependent, or not at all dependent, on illegal sign stealing methods in order to hit decently.

Gurriel (bats R):
Home: .303 BA, .361 OBP, .576 SLG, .937 OPS, 10 H, 2 HR & 5 RBI
Away: .306 BA, .324 OBP, .472 SLG, .797 OPS, 11 H, 0 HR & 3 RBI


Lance doped to the gills during training and the TdF, eventually stripped of titles. His are left vacant, though subsequent TdF wins have been retroactively awarded to runners-up due to doping.
USC 2004 football national championship vacated because they had a player on their roster (Reggie Bush) who got a few dollars from unapproved sources that season. Not doping or cheating to gain any competitive advantage. Title stripped and left vacant.
Louisville 2013 hoops title stripped due to unscrupulous off-the-court behavior, not doping or cheating or any competitive advantage gained, title left vacant.
Over a dozen other NCAA division 1, 2, 3 titles stripped over the years and left vacant. A few for illegal substances conferring competitive advantage, but most for monetary infractions.

MLB found evidence the Astros cheated during the 2017 playoffs. Title should be stripped and left vacant as is the norm with team sports.
Won't happen though. On MLB's own MLB Network last night, the commentators were all toeing the company line of "this was an unprecedentedly harsh punishment" and similar malarkey. The players have not been punished one iota. All position players (those in the dugout) knew about it in detail and many actively utilized it. They should be suspended for 20 or so games this season so there's at least some monetary penalty for them. Their pitchers certainly knew about it (the guy who ratted was a pitcher) but would not have been involved in the implementation and may not (?) have been in a position to stop it if they were in the bullpen most of the time, so maybe I'd give them a pass on the suspensions. The entire team should be made to forfeit their WS championship rings. Of course, this is all in Fantasy Land where the commissioner has a spine.

Wow. That's fascinating. I had no idea the disparity was that big. Thanks for sharing.

[XXtwindad]

Charley Hustle weighs in ...

https://www.nj.com/yankees/2020/01/p...outputType=amp

[PacNW2Ford]

Don’t forget that Gurriel’s suspension for mocking Asians was deferred because it was “unfair” to punish all of the Asstros for his actions. Oops.

[trener1]

McCan's numbers disparity is WOW!.

[wc1934]

Going, going, gone!

https://www.bostonglobe.com/2020/01/...sox-alex-cora/

[EDS]

Originally Posted by cgolvin

Well this was a prescient comment, did MLB consult you? ;-)

Realistically, the fine is minimal ($5M, maximum allowed), especially in light of the 2018 profit increase attributed to the 2017 championship, which I recall reading was in the $65M range.

In addition, because the Astros will remain a good team they will draft at the back end in the affected years so the lost draft picks are of much lower value.

As a Dodger fan it provides little solace. Maybe the city should put on championship parades, with Dave Roberts riding in a clown car down Figueroa with a papier mache trophy. I especially feel for Kershaw (though he has plenty of other postseason mishaps that one can't attribute to cheating…for now).

Ha! They did not, but for sure my post is where they got the idea!

That said, I did not know about the fine limitation. It is such small dollars for an owner that I do not think it is a sufficient penalty.

[trener1]

Yeah $5 million for a MLB team is a joke.
Considering that the value of some of these teams is in the billions.

[XXtwindad]

Now comes more allegations of Tony LaRussa cheating. Is nothing sacred?

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/mlb...cid=spartanntp

[trener1]

He managed Cansaco and McGuire.
Enough said.

[MattTuck]

well, the Red Sox have traded away Mookie Betts (assuming it goes through), ushering in another 86 year drought in Boston championships.

It was a good run for a few years there.

[XXtwindad]

Originally Posted by MattTuck

well, the Red Sox have traded away Mookie Betts (assuming it goes through), ushering in another 86 year drought in Boston championships.

It was a good run for a few years there.

Great article on Betts here: https://www.usatoday.com/story/sport...ox/4665222002/

And now, Boston can get back to a more prototypical leadoff man. Paging Wade Boggs Jr.