Girona's Cycling Scene Has Been A Boon for the City ... Or Has It?

[adub]

Bloody cyclists riding on our roads..

[Red Tornado]

Originally Posted by Red Tornado

Slight thread drift here.... As someone who lives at ground zero for the Magnolia "empire", I can relate a little bit to the folk in Girona. Generally, there is no middle ground in Waco with regard to Chip & JoJo; people here either love them or hate them. Angry Scientist's post is also spot on for a lot of people in this area. They like the $$, dislike the tourists.

Magnolia has brought a lot of good to the area (Waco sure needed some positive vibes), and have helped the employment situation, as well - one of my sons works for their company. They employ a lot of people and treat them well. The droves of out of town visitors have made many a local business some nice increases in profits over the years. The Magnolia phenomena has helped stimulate construction of hotels and many improvements to the city - lots of them in the downtown area. They are involved in the community and I've heard they have a philanthropic side, as well.

On the flip side, most locals do not go downtown on weekends due to the congestion/etc. You would have to see it to believe how bad it can get. They have purchased & improved land downtown where the taxes have gone up so dramatically, small businesses close by have had to relocate due to not being able to afford those higher taxes. The Air B&B industry sometimes seems like it's taken Waco over. Everyone wants to come here and stay in a rental close to Magnolia. These are now spreading out into the suburbs, as well. Seems like city council won't deny any zoning request for that. Houses in the low-income areas of downtown are being purchased for rentals, home values in those areas then increase (since now 50% of houses on the block are really nice) and the remaining locals can't afford to live there any more. This boom has spurred the city on to do some renovation projects of their own, and invite higher-end businesses to locate in those areas, and now the word "gentrification" is being thrown around a lot. Magnolia gets a lot of TIF money for their projects, and some locals believe what they get combined with what is given to other projects/entities has grown to the extent that it's, in part, responsible for a dramatic rise home value appraisals - and the resulting higher taxes. Don't know if this is 100% true, but it's a theory that's tossed around quite a bit. But that's a separate discussion, and I'm not super knowledgeable in those matters anyway.

Personally, I'm one of the few in the middle on this. Glad for the benefits, and not real excited about the other stuff that comes with it, but realistic in that it's all a package deal. Sometimes difficult to have one without the other, or you have to take the good with the bad. A lot depends upon the local government and what they're willing to do. So while I get what the folks in Girona are saying, and can comiserate, if they put a stop to it a lot of the benefits related to the current situation might go away as well.

Originally Posted by joosttx

Just as long as they don’t screw up West, Texas and their kolaches. Lots of industries and people are moving to Texas. Demographics are changing in that state. I think higher taxes and more regulations are coming along with lots of Californians with money to jack up home prices...

I don't see their stuff taking over in West. That town has a unique identity and I think the residents along with the town's governing bodies would look very, very carefully at anything Magnolia would want to put out there. In fact, I doubt West is even on the Magnolia "radar". There's plenty of property/buildings/old houses for the taking in the greater Waco area.

You are right about the kolaches. They are freakin' awesome! Also probably correct on the influx of new residents from parts west of here.

[Red Tornado]

Originally Posted by FlashUNC

I remember hearing that Team Shiplap is bringing in something like 7,000 visitors a week now to Waco? That's pretty wild and I can imagine that kind of surge brings a real strain on local resources.

That's probably an annual average per week. Haven't looked at numbers, but sonny boy tells me they can cycle through a few thousand a day easy at just the Magnolia Silos during peak season. He doesn't complain too much; there's some crazy OT that's available if you want to work it.

Funny, those actually aren't silos - they're grain bins. But "Silo District" rolls better than "Grain Bin District", maybe a marketing thing.

[Mr. Pink]

As per this fair use argument, well, it's Murdoch, so, f him.

[Mr. Pink]

Thanks for posting the article. The most similar situation I've seen in America is Hood River Oregon, which was brought out of the ashes with the windsurfing craze and then MTB in the area. Are there road cycling centric examples? Maybe Jim Thorpe in PA. For MTB, But roadie centric? Of course, Hood River isn't an ancient 12th century small City with great food, which also attracts many.

I visited Spain for the first time last year. I came away with the impression that tourism is a two edged sword. Brings in tons of money, to places that experienced poverty up until the 70s under Franco. You look around and think, there aren't many other sources of income here, especially in the south, after their manufacturing base has gone to China, too. Same in many towns in Italy. There's no reason for a fifteenth century hill town, but tourism. I just try to be respectful. And the food is awesome.

[XXtwindad]

Originally Posted by Mr. Pink

Thanks for posting the article. The most similar situation I've seen in America is Hood River Oregon, which was brought out of the ashes with the windsurfing craze and then MTB in the area. Are there road cycling centric examples? Maybe Jim Thorpe in PA. For MTB, But roadie centric? Of course, Hood River isn't an ancient 12th century small City with great food, which also attracts many.

I visited Spain for the first time last year. I came away with the impression that tourism is a two edged sword. Brings in tons of money, to places that experienced poverty up until the 70s under Franco. You look around and think, there aren't many other sources of income here, especially in the south, after their manufacturing base has gone to China, too. Same in many towns in Italy. There's no reason for a fifteenth century hill town, but tourism. I just try to be respectful. And the food is awesome.

Except Jim Thorpe had no actual connect to PA
http://www.espn.com/espn/feature/sto...ontinues-today

I remember reading about a similar issue in Crested Butte CO a few years back. Locals there are pretty peeved as well. I think it's an interesting issue.
https://www.outsideonline.com/219872...-mountain-town

[William]

Post deleted. Poster welcome to use exerpt with link instead.




Thanks,
W.

[Mr. Pink]

Originally Posted by XXtwindad

Except Jim Thorpe had no actual connect to PA
http://www.espn.com/espn/feature/sto...ontinues-today

I remember reading about a similar issue in Crested Butte CO a few years back. Locals there are pretty peeved as well. I think it's an interesting issue.
https://www.outsideonline.com/219872...-mountain-town

No, ski towns are different. A "local" is just an upper middle class kid who got there first after the mines shut down, and the ones who are peeved are those that weren't smart enough to buy in when prices were low.

Oh, to go back in time and buy up land in Aspen...

[laupsi]

Have a retirement house just outside of Girona; more to my point, located in Catalonia. Have friends there, people who are many generations deep coming from that region. For those of you who not know, the riding there is pretty spectacular in terms of variety, scenery and access. The Catalonians are a very proud people, who quite honestly, have no problem “cutting off their noses to spite their faces”. The area where we sits right on the coast, it’s very old, but not at all struggling economically. One can ride to some very nice climbs in less than an hour. People there are not rich, but enjoy a lifestyle many Americans would drool over. Girona is not cheap, at least not Girona proper, downtown. Cannot confirm if this region was ever depressed and if it was, when it may have been. One thing to consider, this region is Spain’s economic engine. I’m pretty sure most other parts of Spain do not experience similar issues.

[AngryScientist]

Originally Posted by laupsi

Have a retirement house just outside of Girona; more to my point, located in Catalonia. .

Wooo

This forum has inspired some serious purchases; but this has my interest.

Can you share any more about this and your thought process? Seriously cool.

[Kyle h]

My wife and I have been talking about this as a retirement plan; either outside Girona or in Mallorca. Would love to hear details on the process of buying land as a non-citizen of that country.

[laupsi]

My wife lived in Spain as a child, several locations and throughout most her childhood. She mastered the language and fell in love w/the people and the culture, (she’s originally from Brazil). After taking a vacation to southern Spain about 15 years ago, we went back the following year, but further north. I too fell in love, being a cyclist, I was smitten very quickly.

Fast forward to 2015, we were vacationing there that summer when the Greek debt crises hit Europe hard. My Catalonian friends convinced me that if we were going to purchase anything, the time was ripe. We lucked out and found a beautiful villa, fully furnished that was just the perfect size in the right location.

Buying in a foreign country was educational. We’ve learned quite a bit about residency and citizenship, taxes and how to manage the place while we’re not there. We do not rent and hope to be there permanently, at least 6 mos. each year, in about 2 years after our son completes HS. Just wish he was interested in attending college there as well, but we will figure out.

There you have it! It’s all possible folks. Just have to keep that dream in focus, make the sacrifices and it’ll happen.

[rain dogs]

Originally Posted by laupsi

One thing to consider, this region is Spain’s economic engine. I’m pretty sure most other parts of Spain do not experience similar issues.

Congrats and good stuff on the retirement home!

Snipping out a little bit, and not trying to be a Charlie corrector, but Spain has a number of "economic engines" The largest by total GDP and per Capita is Madrid full stop.

Catalonia also has a very large GDP, with Barcelona being the largest by province and Girona second in Catalonia, but is fourth or fifth by provinces in all of Spain by GDP per capita and slightly below the EU avg.

The Basque Country and Navarra are also important 'engines' with both having higher per capita GDP's than Catalonia.

Lastly, in terms of total contributions to GDP, Andalucia is actually larger than the basque country, but per capita, it's more middle ground.

Not sure what you meant by "other parts of Spain experiencing similar issues" but if you mean that population density, high rents and competitiveness, that's common with the large cities now in Spain as everyone the less populated regions for jobs. It's common in all of Madrid, Barcelona and Sevilla for example.

[Bici-Sonora]

Well said. Some Catalans believe their taxes go to Madrid and don’t come back—this one of the main grievances of the separatists. We are looking outside Cataluña as I feel there are places with equally good riding and quality of life for less money. But if you want to rub shoulders with pros drinking café con leche, you can’t beat Girona.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[laupsi]

Originally Posted by rain dogs

Congrats and good stuff on the retirement home!

Snipping out a little bit, and not trying to be a Charlie corrector, but Spain has a number of "economic engines" The largest by total GDP and per Capita is Madrid full stop.

Catalonia also has a very large GDP, with Barcelona being the largest by province and Girona second in Catalonia, but is fourth or fifth by provinces in all of Spain by GDP per capita and slightly below the EU avg.

The Basque Country and Navarra are also important 'engines' with both having higher per capita GDP's than Catalonia.

Lastly, in terms of total contributions to GDP, Andalucia is actually larger than the basque country, but per capita, it's more middle ground.

Not sure what you meant by "other parts of Spain experiencing similar issues" but if you mean that population density, high rents and competitiveness, that's common with the large cities now in Spain as everyone the less populated regions for jobs. It's common in all of Madrid, Barcelona and Sevilla for example.

Thanks for the info. I was regurgitating what I hear from locals when touting reasons to separate. Should have clarified.