ot: so how do a merchant ship and destroyer have a collision?

[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by bigbill

Most XO's go on to be a CO. They'll get a deep draft command on some kind of supply ship or other deep draft type ship. Usually an 18 month tour. Then they do some kind of nuclear training refresher in DC before getting their command. XO to CO is the standard route unless they do something stupid and kill their career. The XO I disliked the most went on to command the Reagan and then made Admiral and ended up retiring because of Fat Leonard.

Surprising...XO and CO, surprised they have the time. Most have had an Airwing or some other big boy bonus command...but then XO and then Deep draft, then CV CO....also means lots of time at sea, like 4 back to back(CAG, XO, deep draft, CO)....but competition for flag is fierce. Very sharp point at top of that pyramid.

[bigbill]

Originally Posted by oldpotatoe

Surprising...XO and CO, surprised they have the time. Most have had an Airwing or some other big boy bonus command...but then XO and then Deep draft, then CV CO....also means lots of time at sea, like 4 back to back(CAG, XO, deep draft, CO)....but competition for flag is fierce. Very sharp point at top of that pyramid.

CAG is usually not in the XO path because of the nuclear power training pipeline. CAG is usually a twilight tour for a Captain aviator who didn't want to attend Nuke school. I've seen XO tours as short as a year followed by a one year deep draft. The most unusual was when I was on the TR 2001-2004. We deployed right after 9/11 for 7 months including 159 days straight on station. After that, we did a yard period followed by a surge deployment for invading Iraq with the same CO. CO's on other carriers were losing their **** that the TR did back to back wartime deployments with the same CO. He made Admiral, they didn't. I liked him.

But back OT, I was an officer of the deck on carriers and I never hit anything other than a light pole on the pier in Souda Bay, Crete and I told the Captain that I was going to hit it and there was nothing we could do but tell people to stand clear. 101,000 tons doesn't stop on a dime, especially if tugboats are pushing you.

[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by bigbill

CAG is usually not in the XO path because of the nuclear power training pipeline. CAG is usually a twilight tour for a Captain aviator who didn't want to attend Nuke school. I've seen XO tours as short as a year followed by a one year deep draft. The most unusual was when I was on the TR 2001-2004. We deployed right after 9/11 for 7 months including 159 days straight on station. After that, we did a yard period followed by a surge deployment for invading Iraq with the same CO. CO's on other carriers were losing their **** that the TR did back to back wartime deployments with the same CO. He made Admiral, they didn't. I liked him.

But back OT, I was an officer of the deck on carriers and I never hit anything other than a light pole on the pier in Souda Bay, Crete and I told the Captain that I was going to hit it and there was nothing we could do but tell people to stand clear. 101,000 tons doesn't stop on a dime, especially if tugboats are pushing you.

CAG as twilight tour...yikes. All the CVs are Nukes, don’t get it(but I retired 22 years ago)...I guess a guy wants a twilight flying job but doesn’t want to drive a boat or make flag...I get it, I think.

Running a squadron was hard enough....

[bigbill]

Originally Posted by oldpotatoe

CAG as twilight tour...yikes. All the CVs are Nukes, don’t get it(but I retired 22 years ago)...I guess a guy wants a twilight flying job but doesn’t want to drive a boat or make flag...I get it, I think.

Running a squadron was hard enough....

Commanding Officers of nuclear powered ships have to attend nuclear power school after their Squadron CO tour. I used to take groups of O-4 Squadron XO's on familiarization tours of the power plant to see if they were interested in taking that path. In my enlisted days, I was a nuclear instructor and would be assigned to a Commander Aviator and be his personal instructor. The classroom phase was 6 months, but the OJT part done as soon as the Commander finished all the qualifications. I'd lead them through their qualifications so they could finish early and get to their XO tour. After I made officer, the CO of my first carrier had been one of my students four years prior.

Here's a no-****ter, on the TR, we had Matt Lauer on board when we crossed the Atlantic on the way home from OEF. He was doing broadcasts along with Ann Curry and was a prima donna while Ann was a wonderful human being. On live TV, he was going to fly in the backseat of a Tomcat and then broadcast from the cockpit after they landed. The pilot was the Squadron XO and he catapulted off on afterburners (D model, not needed) and went supersonic at about ten miles out and then went vertical. He did an inverted pass over the ship supersonic and then did some aerobatics, the Tomcat was really good at one thing, airshows. Anyway, the inside of the canopy was splattered with puke and Matt had to be lifted out. He was wrecked for about 45 minutes before he could broadcast. The last thing I did before I retired off the NIMITZ was to work with the next CO of the Reagan, the pilot that broke Matt Lauer.

[Spaghetti Legs]

Originally Posted by oldpotatoe

Has that changed? On the CVs I was on, the XO was an aviator also, also O-6 but obvious ‘twilight’ tour...not gonna get a CV, deep draft or make flag.

My memory may be faulty, I was never stationed on a carrier but I had always thought that the XO was a SWO. Not sure how a I got that (my time was early 90’s).

[parris]

"The pilot that broke Matt Lauer"... Post of the night!

[Kontact]

In 2001 I was bouncing between small boy decks in the Arabian Gulf delivering mail and expired vaccine. I called our next customer and told them we were in bound to land and asked for their wind numbers for the flight deck. The numbers were out of the envelope for flight ops because the ship was sailing cross wind. As we approached the ship said they were going to maneuver for winds and we watched the ship make a 360° turn to its original heading and report different deck winds (which were wrong).


So I did the Moboard in my head and told the ship which direction it is going to have to turn to get winds in the envelope. Which they still couldn't figure out. So we flew to the next ship on our roster and they didn't get their mail.


If a pilot can figure out wind and ship vectors better than the people running the bridge that day, is it any surprise that a similar crew would not figure out in time that there is another ship and what direction they needed to turn to avoid it?

[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by bigbill

Commanding Officers of nuclear powered ships have to attend nuclear power school after their Squadron CO tour. I used to take groups of O-4 Squadron XO's on familiarization tours of the power plant to see if they were interested in taking that path. In my enlisted days, I was a nuclear instructor and would be assigned to a Commander Aviator and be his personal instructor. The classroom phase was 6 months, but the OJT part done as soon as the Commander finished all the qualifications. I'd lead them through their qualifications so they could finish early and get to their XO tour. After I made officer, the CO of my first carrier had been one of my students four years prior.

Here's a no-****ter, on the TR, we had Matt Lauer on board when we crossed the Atlantic on the way home from OEF. He was doing broadcasts along with Ann Curry and was a prima donna while Ann was a wonderful human being. On live TV, he was going to fly in the backseat of a Tomcat and then broadcast from the cockpit after they landed. The pilot was the Squadron XO and he catapulted off on afterburners (D model, not needed) and went supersonic at about ten miles out and then went vertical. He did an inverted pass over the ship supersonic and then did some aerobatics, the Tomcat was really good at one thing, airshows. Anyway, the inside of the canopy was splattered with puke and Matt had to be lifted out. He was wrecked for about 45 minutes before he could broadcast. The last thing I did before I retired off the NIMITZ was to work with the next CO of the Reagan, the pilot that broke Matt Lauer.

You can say that again, never liked tat jet(flew the A+, never the 'D'). Yup, I took Brad Johnson for a flight in a TA-4, when in VF-126..he wanted one while prepping for Flight of Intruder, after he did 'Always'(he owned the Citabria flown in that movie)..and he puked too..funny stuff.

BUT the CAG-XO-NukePower...gig, sounds like it could get pretty 'political'..I'm sure competition for those commands is, that hasn't changed. Seems like the good guys, the good operators retire at O-6..

[bigbill]

Originally Posted by Kontact

In 2001 I was bouncing between small boy decks in the Arabian Gulf delivering mail and expired vaccine. I called our next customer and told them we were in bound to land and asked for their wind numbers for the flight deck. The numbers were out of the envelope for flight ops because the ship was sailing cross wind. As we approached the ship said they were going to maneuver for winds and we watched the ship make a 360° turn to its original heading and report different deck winds (which were wrong).


So I did the Moboard in my head and told the ship which direction it is going to have to turn to get winds in the envelope. Which they still couldn't figure out. So we flew to the next ship on our roster and they didn't get their mail.


If a pilot can figure out wind and ship vectors better than the people running the bridge that day, is it any surprise that a similar crew would not figure out in time that there is another ship and what direction they needed to turn to avoid it?

On a carrier, I'd catch the helicopters at the end of the last fixed wing recovery before turning downwind to reset (so I could turn back into the wind for the next cycle and stay in the same area). I'd run a reciprocal course so they'd turn the helicopters 180 degrees after fueling so they could take off and still be in the envelope before I turned back into the wind. I was the king of the wind wheel.

[Spaghetti Legs]

Originally Posted by Kontact

In 2001 I was bouncing between small boy decks in the Arabian Gulf delivering mail and expired vaccine.

Was it still called the “Desert Duck” then? That’s what we called the H3 making rounds in the 90’s. The helo crew had a game of stamping duck feet on the flight deck and the flight deck crew would retaliate with a ship’s sticker slapped on the side of the aircraft.

Yeah figuring out and maneuvering for a desired wind envelope isn’t that hard, unless you’re dodging oil tankers or platforms. I did work alongside some pretty thick JO’s however.

[batman1425]

Can I just say thanks to Bill, Spud, Kontact, and others who I may have forgotten 1. For their service, and 2. For the info and perspective on structure and progression in the USN. Super informative and interesting to learn about!

[bigbill]

Originally Posted by Spaghetti Legs

Was it still called the “Desert Duck” then? That’s what we called the H3 making rounds in the 90’s. The helo crew had a game of stamping duck feet on the flight deck and the flight deck crew would retaliate with a ship’s sticker slapped on the side of the aircraft.

Yeah figuring out and maneuvering for a desired wind envelope isn’t that hard, unless you’re dodging oil tankers or platforms. I did work alongside some pretty thick JO’s however.

We used to catch a Sea Stallion out of Sig every morning during Iraqi Freedom. We were the night carrier so we started launching airstrikes at 7pm and would catch the last plane at 7:30. At 8:30 we'd get the Sea Stallion (CH-53) with 10,000 pounds of mail and parts. We'd list half a degree to port with that one. For such a large aircraft, it was kind of touchy on the wind envelope and usually after it lifted off the deck about 30', I'd turn the ship away from it. We caught the same helicopter for three months but sadly it was lost with all hands on the way back to base about a week before we left the Med.

[Kontact]

Originally Posted by Spaghetti Legs

Was it still called the “Desert Duck” then? That’s what we called the H3 making rounds in the 90’s. The helo crew had a game of stamping duck feet on the flight deck and the flight deck crew would retaliate with a ship’s sticker slapped on the side of the aircraft.

Yeah figuring out and maneuvering for a desired wind envelope isn’t that hard, unless you’re dodging oil tankers or platforms. I did work alongside some pretty thick JO’s however.

Yup, I was a Desert Duck. H3s were great aircraft for that mission - great range and capacity.


Later I flew Pumas off USNS ships for VERTREP.

[oldpotatoe]

Another take on these 2 collisions.

https://www.usni.org/magazines/proce...eid=dd1101f498

[shovelhd]

I gotta agree with the author. That's a pretty significant line to cross. So what about friendly fire incidents? Is that also negligent homicide?