Old Titanium Advice

[johnnylarue]

Originally Posted by ojingoh

I don't even like ti bikes, but HAWWWT




That's a post-Helfrich ABG-made Merlin?

Yeah that build is a scorcher. If the liquid metal Terminator dude from T2 ever turned himself into a road bike I suspect he would have looked something like this.

Pretty sure the ABG-made Merlins have engraved badges so my guess is this is an earlier frame. But I’m guessing.

[texbike]

Originally Posted by Mike V

Retro Mod that sucka

Good lord that's fine! Perhaps the best looking vintage Merlin that I've seen...

Originally Posted by ojingoh

That's a post-Helfrich ABG-made Merlin?

Originally Posted by johnnylarue

Yeah that build is a scorcher. If the liquid metal Terminator dude from T2 ever turned himself into a road bike I suspect he would have looked something like this.

Pretty sure the ABG-made Merlins have engraved badges so my guess is this is an earlier frame. But I’m guessing.

^Lol!

This is definitely pre-ABG. The downtube shifter bosses make me think that this is a Cambridge-era Merlin. Fortunately, it's a later model with a threaded BB shell. As a point of reference, I have a pre-ABG Merlin that has the shift cable stops on the head tube, so probably 99/2000ish. I assume that this one predates the one that I have.

Texbike

[Mike V]

It's a 92 53cm. It was my team race bike form back in the day.

Thanks for the compliments.

[johnnylarue]

I know you’re all on the edge of your seats regarding my impending purchase (/s) so I figured I’d update you with one final complication, kinda came out of nowhere:
A95C52DD-ED99-4754-A182-813B51D1902F.jpg

I’ve read a lot of good things about the 585/Ultra. This one is all original, Dura Ace, and with those hilariously marketed $1200 K10’s on it. Haggled down to $850. Its only notable flaw is a scrape on the fork:
143925E7-D8EA-4FE4-ACDB-2B0854BEEAEB.jpeg

A part of me feels like a traitor for considering an older carbon frame (at least it’s lugged!) but I live in a very hilly area and it’s dawned on me that having a machine that actually likes to climb might not be the worst idea. Moreover, I’ve been riding an $800 12-year-old CF bike and am curious to know how differently a $6000 12-year-old CF bike rides in comparison.

And here’s a pic of the competing Litespeed Classic, post-tuneup. I think it’s handsome as heck:
428A422D-6FFC-4823-ABDF-46D493118B42.jpg

Good wheels on this one too, but I confirmed that it was originally an Ultegra build. Its owner upgraded the shifters and RD to Dura Ace when the originals wore out. The welds are good, but certainly not the prettiest I’ve seen on a Ti bike:
B43EB32F-17C0-4BAC-9CC3-769D8A8890DC.jpg

The Merlin is still the outlier in all this. It’s probably the frame I find most attractive out of the three, but the sizing, components and ride quality (noodle factor) are a bit of a crapshoot.

Moreover, the LS and Look are both located within 15 mins of each other. Kind of feel like I’m gonna scoop one of these bikes up tomorrow.

What say you, cognoscenti? Which should it be?

[johnnylarue]

I think I’ll answer my own question! Both owners are amenable to a test drive, so I’m gonna aim to try the Litespeed and the Look and buy the one that speaks to me. So sensible it hurts.

[Matthew]

As much as I love Ti, I would likely go with the Look. Superior bike to the Litespeed in my opinion.

[texbike]

Originally Posted by Matthew

As much as I love Ti, I would likely go with the Look. Superior bike to the Litespeed in my opinion.

^Agreed! You won't find extensive threads on Paceline where the owners speak lovingly about their Litespeeds. The 585 however... There's definitely a reason for it.

Texbike

[johnnylarue]

Originally Posted by Matthew

As much as I love Ti, I would likely go with the Look. Superior bike to the Litespeed in my opinion.

Yeah, I’m leaning in that direction (unless the ride turns out to be unexpectedly harsh or uncomfortable.) Given that I already own a nice 2002 LS Tuscany and don’t own a good cf bike yet, the Look is also less redundant in my stable.

[johnnylarue]

Originally Posted by Matthew

As much as I love Ti, I would likely go with the Look. Superior bike to the Litespeed in my opinion.

Originally Posted by texbike

^Agreed! You won't find extensive threads on Paceline where the owners speak lovingly about their Litespeeds. The 585 however... There's definitely a reason for it.

Texbike

It’s true. I’ve searched everywhere for a “Litespeed Classic Appreciation Thread” but it looks like I’d probably have to start one myself.

Admittedly I’m still a sucker for the looks and agelessness of Ti but I feel like it might be time for me to try a legitimate “performance machine” for once in my life (after riding only steel, Ti and low-end carbon for the entirety of my existence.)

Looks like I might be able to go check them both out today so hopefully we can put this miserable thread to rest soon!

[Matthew]

Looking forward to seeing what you end up doing. I've got two Moots and they are awesome bikes. So clearly as I said above I am a big fan of titanium. I also have a lugged carbon bike, a Serotta Meivici. And it too is a great bike. And Look bikes get a ton of love here. Since you have a Tuscany already I'd seriously consider the Look if it fits. Well made and a great ride! Good luck!

[johnnylarue]

Originally Posted by Matthew

Looking forward to seeing what you end up doing. I've got two Moots and they are awesome bikes. So clearly as I said above I am a big fan of titanium. I also have a lugged carbon bike, a Serotta Meivici. And it too is a great bike. And Look bikes get a ton of love here. Since you have a Tuscany already I'd seriously consider the Look if it fits. Well made and a great ride! Good luck!

Thanks, Matthew. Two ‘Mootses’ is an enviable hoard! I’ve yet to behold one in the cold-welded flesh, let alone ride one, but they rate among the prettiest frames I’ve ever seen. A Meivici is a serious cherry on top. So nice. (Am I too late to be added to your will?

Bike auditions have been postponed until tomorrow due to some scheduling snafus. And tomorrow’s looking like a rare rainy day here in SoCal, but I’ve got 20 years of riding in Vancouver under my belt so I think I’ll be ok.

I have mixed feelings about walking away from the Merlin that started this thread, but too many unknowns and a haggle-proof price took the wind out of my sails a bit.

[Matthew]

Having two Moots is definitely a blessing. One is an old school 26er MTB Rigor that I updated to discs and a 1x drivetrain. The other is a Compact road. They're keepers, even with the 26in wheels. The Meivici is an incredible bike too. Excellent craftsmanship on all the bikes. Love Moots welds and finish. And the Serotta has a great paint job and gorgeous carbon lugs/weave. I don't have any kids, so it's not too late to get in on the will!! Hopefully I'll be around a while yet though!

[johnnylarue]

Originally Posted by Matthew

Having two Moots is definitely a blessing. One is an old school 26er MTB Rigor that I updated to discs and a 1x drivetrain. The other is a Compact road. They're keepers, even with the 26in wheels. The Meivici is an incredible bike too. Excellent craftsmanship on all the bikes. Love Moots welds and finish. And the Serotta has a great paint job and gorgeous carbon lugs/weave. I don't have any kids, so it's not too late to get in on the will!! Hopefully I'll be around a while yet though!

Ha! Well, I’ll look forward to bombing down a local mountain on that Serotta for my 85th birthday then, maybe!

I definitely appreciate the way those builders choose to celebrate their lugwork with contrasting paint in a manner reminiscent of vintage roadies, when most cf manufacturers try to make them as discreet as possible (if not altogether non-existent, as has sadly become standard practice.)

Chatted with the 585 owner this evening and he’s got me more than a little excited. I think I’m gonna like this bike.

[kiwisimon]

If it fits the Look would be my choice. Great bike and your reasoning makes sense to me. Scrape on the fork is character building. Find out how it happened so then you can embellish a good yarn about how it happened.

[ridethecliche]

Look hands down.