Rivendell's Black Reparations Pricing

[tomato coupe]

Originally Posted by XXtwindad

The central question undergirding the issue is really important: how to increase minority (specifically Black) populations in a largely white sport.

Increasing minority participation has nothing to do with reparations, and Rivendell's statement makes no mention of it.

[raygunner]

There was something in that statement about selling 850 bikes in a year. I was surprised to hear that they sold that many.

[colker]

Originally Posted by tomato coupe

Increasing minority participation has nothing to do with reparations, and Rivendell's statement makes no mention of it.

Even if it´s not even Riv´s intention the issue, participation in the sport, is at the center of everything here.
Actually seen from the POV that twindad brought, riv´s initiative is not to be even considered leftist but plain capitalist need of expanding market and consummerism. Winwinwin.

[.RJ]

to me, this comes across as totally tone deaf - how does a niche and expensive cycling brand offering discounts further any cause whatsoever?

I would rather see these companies invest their money in non-profits, funds or local cycling juniors/youth teams that will make a difference in bringing change to our sport. Surely being in california they could hook up with the Legion guys?

My $.02, and I donated far more than $.02 to both ACLU and Legion this year.

[barnabyjones]

Originally Posted by .RJ

I would rather see these companies invest their money in non-profits, funds or local cycling juniors/youth teams that will make a difference in bringing change to our sport. Surely being in california they could hook up with the Legion guys?

My $.02, and I donated far more than $.02 to both ACLU and Legion this year.

Legion would take that money and "hire" more white guys. A few months ago they released the one black kid on their team whose last name isn't Williams.

https://www.instagram.com/p/CDuXEUXl..._web_copy_link

danteyoung__
Dedication and sacrifice are the name of the game of cycling. And that is exactly what I have done for the past few years for Legion of Los Angeles. I believed in the teams mission and felt proud to put on the jersey every morning and pin a number to it at every race.

It is with a heavy heart that I even have to write this post… but here we are. Last night I received a text informing me that Legion no longer has the capacity, resources or time to continue to develop me as a rider and racer and that effective immediately I was no longer on Legion of Los Angeles.

[rain dogs]

Originally Posted by bthornt

Not saying this isn't a good thing, but I'm wondering if this is legal. I've included a link to the ACLU web site that discusses this, second bullet point under "Your Rights."

https://www.aclu.org/know-your-right...tional-origin/

Huh, Based on???? Discrimination?

Discrimination would be denying people access to something that anyone of any other caste is not denied.

That's very different than giving people EXTRA benefits. Unless you think it's reverse discrimination vs everyone else?

But that's absurd, no? No white individual (nor any other) are being denied the ability to buy a bike with Rivendell because of this policy.

[bthornt]

Copied directly from the ACLU web site.

You cannot be denied a home, a job, or service at a business that is open to the public because of your race, ethnicity, or national origin, and you cannot be charged a different price because of your race, ethnicity, or national origin.

It says you cannot be charged a different price because of your race. Isn't that what Rivendell is doing?

[Spdntrxi]

Originally Posted by bthornt

Copied directly from the ACLU web site.

You cannot be denied a home, a job, or service at a business that is open to the public because of your race, ethnicity, or national origin, and you cannot be charged a different price because of your race, ethnicity, or national origin.

It says you cannot be charged a different price because of your race. Isn't that what Rivendell is doing?

Bingo...

Rivendale is virtual signaling at is finest.

[colker]

Originally Posted by bthornt

Copied directly from the ACLU web site.

You cannot be denied a home, a job, or service at a business that is open to the public because of your race, ethnicity, or national origin, and you cannot be charged a different price because of your race, ethnicity, or national origin.

It says you cannot be charged a different price because of your race. Isn't that what Rivendell is doing?

The whole idea of reparation goes against the principle of us being equals but then the State of Israel was recognized on the basis of second world war reparations.

[rain dogs]

Originally Posted by bthornt

Copied directly from the ACLU web site.

You cannot be denied a home, a job, or service at a business that is open to the public because of your race, ethnicity, or national origin, and you cannot be charged a different price because of your race, ethnicity, or national origin.

It says you cannot be charged a different price because of your race. Isn't that what Rivendell is doing?

No. No one is being charged a different price. The price is the same. The "sale"/discount has limitations. Like 40% off for the first 100 through the door. What about the 101st through 120th person?

The thrust of what you are reading is using pricing as a means of exclusion. In other words, like what happened with White people making private swimming clubs/pools, and then telling black people that the price was so prohibitively expensive for them that no person could pay it, white or otherwise, as a means of exclusion. Because after laws were changed that prohibited just telling black people they couldn't share water with white people, white people started using price and admission as a way to deny access.

This isn't happening here.This is using pricing as a means of inclusion (or at least that is the intended attempt.)

[joevers]

Originally Posted by bthornt

Copied directly from the ACLU web site.

You cannot be denied a home, a job, or service at a business that is open to the public because of your race, ethnicity, or national origin, and you cannot be charged a different price because of your race, ethnicity, or national origin.

It says you cannot be charged a different price because of your race. Isn't that what Rivendell is doing?

You're not being denied service, and you're not being charged a cent more than you were 2 days ago, 6 months ago, 2 years ago.

Reparations are given at the end of wars, they are given at the end of revolutions, and they are given in direct response to financial harm at the hands of one group of people, state, idea, event, to the group of people that were harmed. Black POC in the states have not gotten a cent from the financial, physical, and emotional harm that the US has caused them across generations. Riv is choosing to acknowledge the harm that has been caused against a group of people, and are beginning to repair that damage.

[raygunner]

I bet this program will be so successful that Grant will come hat in hand to raise additional money to expand it.

And they'll sell buttons that read "Save Rivendell...Again!"

[fiamme red]

Originally Posted by Spdntrxi

I guess you can self- identify

That's how it works for the census.

[bthornt]

If Rivendell decided to donate some bikes to a charity that didn't discriminate on the basis of race, ethnicity, gender, and so on, that would be ok and may fulfill their goal of making cycling more inclusive. Or, as noted in a previous post, if they just made some sort of cash donation to a charity with this goal, that would be ok, too. But it seems pretty obvious to me, although I hasten to add that I'm not a lawyer, that you can't charge different prices for the same product based on the characteristics listed above. Even if it's for a cause that is noble and good.

[BobbyJones]

Starting to think these are two or three separate discussions. I get what people are saying.

•The act of reparations.

•The perception of "roundabout" tiered pricing based solely on race.(Which the ACLU described as prohibited.)

For the sake of academic (?) discussion, I think the example that Rain Dogs brings up

No. No one is being charged a different price. The price is the same. The "sale"/discount has limitations. Like 40% off for the first 100 through the door. What about the 101st through 120th person?

may not be applicable because the 101st through 120th person aren't being denied the discount because of their race, but because of the racially non-discriminatory position in the customer count. No?

I've got a hunch we're a step away from a lock, but I appreciate the discussion so far.