24-hr test ride Argon-18 Gallium Pro

[AngryScientist]

i've been very happy with my Argon-18 bike. if it fits acceptably and the price is right, i would not hesitate to go for it!

[dddd]

Yeah, 1300 and the owners posting here seem happy. I'll be cautious of pedal strikes, my older model has 70mm of bb drop and the newer ones maybe 75mm.

For a medium-sized country, Australia is pretty stongly represented in sport!

I'm thrilled to see Astana rocking those aero Argons, I didn't know.

I took my old standard ('04 Orbea Orca) out for a "control" ride after testing the Argon, and noted the following (both bikes have identical published TT length and angles, but the Orbea has wider bars, a 1cm longer stem, and positions the bars slightly higher):


The 7800 shifters and drivetrain perform well, but feel primitive compared to 9100, and with limited gearing (39x25t).

Higher, wider bars give a roomier feel to the Orbea's cockpit

The Orbea's steering feels "busy" or "flighty", leading to a less comfortable ride feel, yet it still handles major inputs precisely.

The Orbea handles bumps approximately as well as the Gallium, and feels rock-solid in response to pedaling efforts, but feels slightly heavier and relatively sluggish in terms of acceleration.

I'll be testing the Gallium Pro alongside my 2015 Colnago CX-Zero tomorrow morning.

[Blown Reek]

What's the point of the head tube extender? Why don't you just use two spacers in lieu of it? It's essentially doing the same thing.

[oldpotatoe]

[QUOTE=dddd;2391733]I've been given the opportunity to test-ride and buy a 2010 Gallium Pro that was built up all-new last year with 9100 kit and color-coordinated FSA brakes,

For a guy who seems to know his way around a bike shop, bigring-bigcog? C'mon..

[dddd]

Works fine, but you can see in all of my pictures that the chain's on the 2nd-smallest cog, the 1st cog is hella noisy with the big ring on this Argon Gallium.

I try not to pre-conceive what ratios are usable, it presents itself out on the road, each bike is a little different. FWIW, I blend my own chain lube.

Has there been any quantitative testing data showing cross-chaining losses? My chains and rings do at least last a quite long time and I tend to cross-chain regularly, if briefly (since I can feel the friction).

One more thing is that most of my bikes (even modern ones) can run the entire spread of the cassette without any FD trim required, the result of some subtle alterations to the FD cage in most cases (not always needed).

Small-to-small causes all kinds of problems (real time and theoretical) that I have identified, so totally no-go for me.

Even here in the foothills I've done entire rides (including to and from the ride start) all in the big ring if I have a 30t in back. I've done whole 'cross races in the big ring. Winter training I'll do big-ring hill work on an actual 39# Schwinn Varsity, cross-chaining and all.

Here ya go:



BTW, I've noticed that if you photograph a bike with the chain on the 2nd-biggest cog, it makes the cassette look a little smaller!

[smead]

On a 9/10/11 speed drivetrain, you are starting to cross chain on the 4th largest cog. But not much, I certain spend some time there.., but much less on the 3rd, and in the 2nd, I'd feel way cross chained and only use that in a pinch. At the top, well you are over the top! Especially on climbs.

Use your small ring, stay in the middle of the cassette and your drivetrain will reward you with many more miles.

[dddd]

Originally Posted by Blown Reek

What's the point of the head tube extender? Why don't you just use two spacers in lieu of it? It's essentially doing the same thing.

Argon18 has a bit to say about their unique headtube extender, something to do with how and where the steer tube flexes, sorta made sense to me to use their extender instead of a tall spacer or stack of spacers.
I've found that too many spacers can lead to creaking at the upper headset, an affliction that, once it sets in, can be difficult to be rid of without then replacing the headset.

The headtube extender does in fact also reduce the radial loading on the headset bearings, for what that's worth.

[charliedid]

You certain that bike isn't too small for you? Sure appears like you are trying to make it bigger than it is.

[fogrider]

I really like the Argon 18! but since your Scott has deep section rims, you may not feel the Argon is faster...

[macaroon]

I'd be tempted to put the saddle down by 10mm or so, then try it again. You might find you'll sit more "in" the bike and you'll be able to flip the stem/get rid of the headtube extender.

[oldpotatoe]

dddd;2392205]Works fine, but you can see in all of my pictures that the chain's on the 2nd-smallest cog, the 1st cog is hella noisy with the big ring on this Argon Gallium.

I try not to pre-conceive what ratios are usable, it presents itself out on the road, each bike is a little different. FWIW, I blend my own chain lube.

Has there been any quantitative testing data showing cross-chaining losses?

Not worried about that and of course 'it works' but big ring to big cog, that angle wears the CR pretty quickly due to the angle the chain comes off the ring.
AND that big ring is pricey..again->

[dddd]

You're right about the chainring price, I almost want to get rid of the Shimano big rings because of their resonance (same issue with my CX-Zero), but of course it would be expensive if there even are any good alternative rings for these new-fangled cranksets. I wouldn't mind using an old Stronglight 93 crankset if a narrow chain would get along with it!

A full 10mm saddle drop sounds extreme at this point, I know what you mean macaroon about getting into a tighter tuck with a lower saddle, but I might go as far as a 1cm longer stem flipped normal, if only just to try exploring the fit parameters with maybe an eighth-inch drop at the saddle. Moving the saddle forward another few mm (I'm running out of adjustment) should by itself make the saddle effectively lower depending on the angle of the rails.

Charliedid, yep that's pretty much how it's always been for me, bikes fitted for me always ran at/near the seatpost limit line with me looking for ways to raise the bars. I naturally prefer the proportions of "endurance" bikes with taller headtubes since I am long-legged. Since I am looking for more of a race bike here, my CX-Zero with the very same same 55.5cm TT and 73.5-degree ST angle provides the right geometry with a much taller headtube, but is currently rather heavy even with 6800 kit.
My old Orca (same geo numbers again) is also "stretched tall", almost as much with this Argon, but fits me perfectly as a race bike with 110 neck (might be a 120 neck as shown) as well as I can tell:



I could see modernizing the old Orca with newer controls, 11s kit and a modern bar as on the Argon, but that would cost some dough. Suddenly I'm thinking that I might at least want to test it with a modern, narrower bar to see if the steering feel improves, which it might. It's old Ksyriums are 13mm narrow and have heavily-worn sides, but I recently bought some 5-yr-old, 60mm Roval carbon wheels I could use on it.


The CX-Zero now also has a longer 110 neck on it, fits and handles well without the stretched-up look. Too bad it's so heavy (even if perhaps half of it's excess weight is just in the wheels) and that I don't care for the 35mm TrentaCinque bars/stem:


Decisions, decisions. Thankfully the owner of the Argon isn't rushing me as of yet.

[stien]

Carbon is cool but at some point it becomes nearly worthless as you found out. Looks like you can achieve your fit there but I question whether or not you're sacrificing something other than looks to get there. You seem to be near the end of the fitting bell curve for stock bikes. You're also thinking of spending quite a bit of coin on this. For example Joe Wells could build you something that fits perfectly, you could throw on a group and be the happiest rider ever...probably for the same money.

[dddd]

Yeah, remembering what weisan said about "new toy euphoria", I'd pretty much be buying the great parts and slick paint job for $1300.

I gave the 2004 Orca a new lease on life this morning with a tune-up, chain clean/lube, my favorite (WTB Lazer Titanium) saddle and (biggest change of all) lower pressure in the plump 25mm Michelins.
Then I did another of my 1.5hr rides into the hills.
It's almost like a new bike, the steering issue somehow magically went away, and the drivetrain feels slick and quiet with my familiar and preferred older-school 10s gearing. And, yes, compared to the Argon, the Orca has a more normal-appearing fit. It's longer 110mm neck makes a half-inch of additional bar drop feel natural and comfortably more aggressive even with the handlebar I wasn't much liking only the other day.
So yeah, the 26mm (actual width on i13mm rims) Michelins have transformed the Orca, which will only make it harder for me to ever sell it.

[stien]

Try wide rims on that bike (if the tires fit!) and you won't see the need for anything new ever again

My MIL's boyfriend has an Orbea with Ardennes Plus SL, 25mm GP4KS2 tires and loves it. He's still on 9s Dura Ace!