Some Basic Waterford Questions

Hawker · #1 12-27-2018, 09:48 PM

I've been to the Waterford site and FB page a few times but still find I have some questions...looks like there are at least a few Waterford owners here, so if you don't mind:

1. Interestingly, I can't find a price guide anywhere on their site?? That doesn't make decision making very easy. Wondering what an 853 or Stainless build would cost? Road bike, no lugs. Ball park pricing?

2. What's the difference between an 853 custom build from any of the well known builders and Waterford? Is Waterford "less custom"?

3. I'm "feeling" like perhaps Waterford may be old school in some ways...is that a fair assessment?

4. Do their frame weights compare favorably with other small builders?

5. When I search Waterford here, I find a LOT of bikes for sale. A LOT. What should I take from that? Unhappy buyers, buyers who are just moving up to something better or different?

6. Is there a Waterford owners group, forum or similar that I am missing?

I'm guessing there may be Waterford company people, dealers and owners who will read this. No offense is being made here, nor am I looking for gossip or complaints...I'm just trying to get some basic info as well as thoughts and opinions.

Thanks in advance.

FlashUNC · #2 12-27-2018, 10:00 PM

https://waterfordbikes.com/pricing/

eddief · #3 12-27-2018, 10:46 PM

so there are many bikes in the marketplace and that leads to more being for sale. Richard Schwinn both for Gunnar and Waterford prefers to work through his dealers rather than one on one like smaller builders. So you would need to get the attention and the customer service mostly through your chosen dealer. That puts a middle person between you and your "custom" bike. I do believe Waterford can do most anything a boutique can do but I think the bikes tend to be more middle of the road in uniqueness than you could arrange through a relationship with a one man shop. A fine lugged Waterford would probably be way less dough than one from finer artisans. Waterford Artisan = $2200:

https://waterfordbikes.com/22-series-artisan/

On the other hand, Waterford can do it all:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/waterfordbikes/

Hawker · #4 12-27-2018, 10:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlashUNC

https://waterfordbikes.com/pricing/

Thanks. I searched multiple times and couldn't find this.

Hawker · #5 12-27-2018, 10:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eddief

so there are many bikes in the marketplace and that leads to more being for sale. Richard Schwinn both for Gunnar and Waterford prefers to work through his dealers rather than one on one like smaller builders. So you would need to get the attention and the customer service mostly through your chosen dealer. That puts a middle person between you and your "custom" bike. I do believe Waterford can do most anything a boutique can do but I think the bikes tend to be more middle of the road in uniqueness than you could arrange through a relationship with a one man shop. A fine lugged Waterford would probably be way less dough than one from finer artisans.

Understood, but unfortunately they don't show any dealers in the state of GA. But I would hope they have an alternative solution for those in the same situation as I?

eddief · #6 12-27-2018, 11:04 PM

in those cases I do believe you can go direct to Waterford. But that's still not as personal as working face to face with a local builder. In fact, when I ordered a Gunnar years ago, there was a dealer nearby but requested to work directly with Richard Schwinn, he said ok, and I ended up with just what I wanted.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hawker

Understood, but unfortunately they don't show any dealers in the state of GA. But I would hope they have an alternative solution for those in the same situation as I?

Ken Robb · #7 12-27-2018, 11:22 PM

I walked into Waterford unannounced and Richard Schwinn gave me a 1+ hour tour starting with here's where we receive the tubes to here's where we pack the finished frames/forks for shipping. After I got home I bought stock RS11 and loved it. At the handbuilt show a couple of years later I spoke with Richard about what Waterford I should buy that would be better than my RS11. He told me a new 2200 or 33 frame might save me a few ounces but they wouldn't ride any better than the RS11 that I already owned and loved. Waterford is a no "BS" company that produces terrific bikes.. I always thought that a lugged Waterford in shiny black paint with stainless lugs and fork crown was one of the prettiest bikes I ever saw.

You can call Richard just like you can call Steve Hampsten, Dave Kirk, Dave wages and other good builders so see which guy makes you feel like he's "your guy".

Ken Robb · #8 12-27-2018, 11:27 PM

I almost forgot: When I explained to Richard that I had a very bad experience trying to get info from his dealer local to me he said he'd be happy to work with me to order a Waterford with any legitimate local dealer so your Georgia location may not be a problem.

mhespenheide · #9 12-27-2018, 11:46 PM

I can't comment on their dealer network or on ordering from them directly, but I can say that I bought one of their forks through the classifieds here (second-hand but otherwise unused) and was impressed with the construction and finish. If anything, I think they're underrated as a custom shop/builder, particularly given their prices.

Clean39T · #10 12-28-2018, 12:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ken Robb

I walked into Waterford unannounced and Richard Schwinn gave me a 1+ hour tour starting with here's where we receive the tubes to here's where we pack the finished frames/forks for shipping. After I got home I bought stock RS11 and loved it. At the handbuilt show a couple of years later I spoke with Richard about what Waterford I should buy that would be better than my RS11. He told me a new 2200 or 33 frame might save me a few ounces but they wouldn't ride any better than the RS11 that I already owned and loved. Waterford is a no "BS" company that produces terrific bikes.. I always thought that a lugged Waterford in shiny black paint with stainless lugs and fork crown was one of the prettiest bikes I ever saw.

You can call Richard just like you can call Steve Hampsten, Dave Kirk, Dave wages and other good builders so see which guy makes you feel like he's "your guy".

+1

The Boulder Road Sport I had briefly was built by Waterford and was very nicely finished from welds to paint to ride quality.

SlowPokePete · #11 12-28-2018, 05:32 AM

I bought my Waterford Frame and Fork (ST-22) almost two years ago used right here on the Paceline. It's got a stainless head tube as well as chain stays.

Last spring I found a crack in the lug at the head tube / down tube junction, and had Waterford do the repair and am so glad I did.

They make very fine bicycles in my opinion.

I know they have a new website and I've poked around a little...

Here's a few recent pics of mine, after repair and touch up (which they did an amazing job with)...

December 8, 2018 Waterford by SlowPoke Pete, on Flickr

December 8, 2018 Waterford by SlowPoke Pete, on Flickr

SPP

oldpotatoe · #12 12-28-2018, 05:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hawker

I've been to the Waterford site and FB page a few times but still find I have some questions...looks like there are at least a few Waterford owners here, so if you don't mind:

1. Interestingly, I can't find a price guide anywhere on their site?? That doesn't make decision making very easy. Wondering what an 853 or Stainless build would cost? Road bike, no lugs. Ball park pricing?

2. What's the difference between an 853 custom build from any of the well known builders and Waterford? Is Waterford "less custom"?

3. I'm "feeling" like perhaps Waterford may be old school in some ways...is that a fair assessment?

4. Do their frame weights compare favorably with other small builders?

5. When I search Waterford here, I find a LOT of bikes for sale. A LOT. What should I take from that? Unhappy buyers, buyers who are just moving up to something better or different?

6. Is there a Waterford owners group, forum or similar that I am missing?

I'm guessing there may be Waterford company people, dealers and owners who will read this. No offense is being made here, nor am I looking for gossip or complaints...I'm just trying to get some basic info as well as thoughts and opinions.

Thanks in advance.

1.Asked and answered

2.Waterford is only custom. Yes, they DO have 'stock geometry, but essentially, they are made to order.
3.He does steel only and does it very well..grandson of Ignatz(sp?) Schwinn of the old Schwinn family. He has 'modern' flares on his bikes but 'steel is real'.
4.yup..I had a R-33 on the floor as a demo with SR, nothing exotic and it weighed just under 16 pounds..aluminum cockpit and rims.
5.Waterford is a 'medium' sized builder..not direct, small, one person operation..I think he's still in the 1100-1200 frames range..and he builds for others, like BoulderBike
6.unknown

I've owned 3-4, wonderful rides, custom geometry..craftmanship on par(or better) than a lot of the old Italian/Euro 'masters'..

He WILL sell direct, BTW..do a good fit, call him, fax numbers..talk to Richard..

marciero · #13 12-28-2018, 06:31 AM

More mostly good experiences to report. I had a used Gunnar Crosshairs from ebay that I shipped back to them to have a tube replaced. The downtube had broken-completely severed, while riding. They determined that it was too rusted out and not worth repairing or not repairable. They did offer me a crash discount on a new frame, which I took them up on.
I had great communication with the contact person throughout the process. She also found me an "orphan" fork-a Crosshairs fork that had not been paired with a frame- at a discount. The only negative was the $125 re-stocking fee when I sent back the 54 to exchange for a 56, but that is on me. (That was when the "cross bikes should be a size smaller" mentality ruled, even though the bike was intended for commuter/touring/multi-use. )

As has been said, even the stock frames are made to order. I got a personalized pink sheet with the geo and other specs just like most custom builders would give you.

Mikej · #14 12-28-2018, 08:33 AM

They really are a great builder, I had a 1200 over 20 years ago. Great classic bike options,too! Love the stainless options. Be sure to post it up when you have it!

john903 · #15 12-28-2018, 09:27 AM

As others have said Richard Schwinn is very personable and easy to talk to. I got mine through a dealer it was a RS1200 series with "753" tubing and Campy Chours racing triple in Sherwood Forrest green. A couple years after I had mine Richard Schwinn came to his dealers on the west coast trip and I got to meet him and still have a group photo of several of us with Richard and our various Waterfords. I remember thinking "hey this is Richard Schwinn I am talking to wow this is so cool." Anyway it was a fantastic ride and I kept it for 20 years. It was replaced with a Match built Hampsten Cinghale which is my all time favorite bike. The only issue I had with my Waterford was it was a 54 and should of been a 56 but that was my fault and is a long story. So yes Waterfords are fantastic bikes.
Have a great day