The Last Rider - Greg LeMond

[tv_vt]

That trailer was really good. The Lemond era of pro cycling was really inspiring to so many of us.

As far as the doping, Lemond was a phenom from the get-go. As a junior, he'd race senior categories and just ride away from the field. There was never an 'overnight' change in his performances. He was always a force.

What I remember from the World Cycling Tour videos (RIP) was his comments in the '91 and '92 Tours, how he just couldn't get over how hard and fast the stages were. You could read between the lines and get what he was saying - the riders were riding at 2 speeds, and he knew what group he was in.

[saab2000]

Who cares if he did or didn't? The fact is that finding an edge has always been part of cycling and it's naive to think otherwise. Riders in cycling and participants in all sports have been doing all kinds of things since the beginning of time. None of it turns a pack mule into a thoroughbred.

Anyway, blood doping wasn't even illegal in the early 1980s and the penalties for minor doping infractions back then were trivial. Most riders got dinged with some kind of infraction and were docked like 20 seconds on GC or got a week off or in some cases thrown out of races. Michel Pollentier comes to mind. Look it up.

About the time of the end of his career riders started dying from bizarre causes. And he went backwards. So there's reason to believe he may have known where to draw the line or simply chose to not partake. We'll never know.

If folks don't like the dirty underbelly of professional sports of all kinds they should stay away. They all have dirty secrets.

Only he knows what he did and the rest of the speculation of fans. Who cares? Enjoy the racing. His rise in the ranks is, to me, more impressive than his return from serious injury from his shooting accident. Americans in the sport were largely a sideshow, with just a few making any dent at all. It wasn't an American sport. It would be like a Frenchman dreaming of becoming a star QB in the NFL and succeeding at it.

I'm curious if this picture brings anything new to light. There was a movie called "Slaying the Badger" a few years ago and his story has been well documented for many years. Much of this story was covered by the US TV networks that covered cycling in the 1980s and early 1990s. CBS and ABC come to mind.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Of_jyeDZ3Sg

[saab2000]

Originally Posted by tv_vt

That trailer was really good. The Lemond era of pro cycling was really inspiring to so many of us.

As far as the doping, Lemond was a phenom from the get-go. As a junior, he'd race senior categories and just ride away from the field. There was never an 'overnight' change in his performances. He was always a force.

What I remember from the World Cycling Tour videos (RIP) was his comments in the '91 and '92 Tours, how he just couldn't get over how hard and fast the stages were. You could read between the lines and get what he was saying - the riders were riding at 2 speeds, and he knew what group he was in.

This was the overnight performance change for him. He went backwards pretty quickly about this time and just a couple years prior had been at the top of the sport.

[peanutgallery]

There ought to be a series about the donkeys that turned into thoroughbreds from 1990 to present. Would be interesting

One whole season could be devoted just to the excuses and coincidences involving family members. Even the unborn and innocent pets

Greg? Feeling he was pretty clean. Probably stream the movie when I can

[catchourbreath]

Just finished "The Comeback" and they do go at length into the donkeys, Lance too!

[Elefantino]

He actually came into the 1991 TdF in what he called maybe his best form ever and thought there was no way he could lose. He knew Indurain was strong -- he had shown that by winning head-to-head with LeMond on Luz Ardiden in 1990 and finishing in the top 4 in each of the ITTs -- but thought he was stronger.

He wore the yellow jersey twice in 1991, but bonked going into the Pyrenees and then had a fever the night before the queen stage. He ultimately lost 7 minutes to Indurain and Chiappucci (many people forget he also was knocked off his bike by a Gatorade car that day), then 2 more minutes on Alpe d'Huez. He recovered and put time back into them later in the Alps (they undoubtedly let him go up the road) but by then it was too late.

If he hadn't bonked and hadn't been feverish, could he have won despite the rampant EPO use by everyone else? Maybe. He was that good.

[spoonrobot]

Fignon has an interesting blurb in his wikipedia profile

In his autobiography, Fignon admitted to using recreational drugs, and occasionally using stimulants in the 1980s. He noted this was widespread, and that the practice would not dramatically change the capabilities of a rider. He noted major changes in the sport in the early 1990s with the onset of routine use of Human Growth Hormone and the blood-booster, EPO. Fignon stated he was revolted by the idea of taking hormones to enhance performance, and the mere suggestion he refused out of hand.[32] He retired from competition in 1993 when he realized that cycling had changed, and that he no longer had a place in it.[33]

[XXtwindad]

My two cents:

1) The movie seems like a profile of a wonderful marriage and friendship as much as anything else

2) If Lemond did dope, why would he be so vociferous in opposition to Armstrong? That would seem pretty foolhardy.

[saab2000]

Originally Posted by XXtwindad

My two cents:


2) If Lemond did dope, why would he be so vociferous in opposition to Armstrong? That would seem pretty foolhardy.

Those two really didn't like each other. I think Lemond didn't like that another American was stealing the spotlight and LA's cocky, take-no-prisoners attitude was a turnoff to some.

Whether or not Lemond skirted the rules is an unknown, though I would like to believe he was clean. He clearly has lab numbers to show he's a one-in-a-million aerobic athlete.

None of it matters. I'll remain a fan.

[spoonrobot]

Originally Posted by saab2000

Those two really didn't like each other. I think Lemond didn't like that another American was stealing the spotlight and LA's cocky, take-no-prisoners attitude was a turnoff to some.

Whether or not Lemond skirted the rules is an unknown, though I would like to believe he was clean. He clearly has lab numbers to show he's a one-in-a-million aerobic athlete.

None of it matters. I'll remain a fan.

As soon as Armstrong was in the national conversation he was pitted as an antagonist to LeMond. The American press denigrated LeMond as soon as he stopped winning. He wasn't allowed a gracious exit from the sport or popular consciousness.

Some of the contemporary interviews are also sterling examples of poor talent management.

"We talk to fat, depressed, has-been, Greg LeMond about how much he got his ass-kicked at the Tour, how his business is failing, and this new up-and-comer that is going to overtake his legacy"

Nowadays the management or agent for the rider wouldn't allow such an interview.

Of course, Armstrong is also a pretty aggressive asshole with a huge ego.

[bthomas515]

This is actually fascinating. I've heard "about" lemond for years but did not know the details of his life

[jamesdak]

Originally Posted by saab2000

This was the overnight performance change for him. He went backwards pretty quickly about this time and just a couple years prior had been at the top of the sport.

Yep, if you paid any attention to the sport and how he suddenly could not compete it's pretty obvious he wasn't on the juice.

[GregL]

Originally Posted by jamesdak

Yep, if you paid any attention to the sport and how he suddenly could not compete it's pretty obvious he wasn't on the juice.

I can't/won't make assumptions/accusations about whether LeMond used illegal PEDs. I believe that the rise of oxygen vector doping by his competitors as well as LeMond's body suffering from the aftereffects of his shooting led to the sudden decrease in LeMond's performances.

Greg

[catchourbreath]

Yea the key seemed to be a lot of riders Lance included were midpack one season and then pushing a 40km/hr pace the next season. Coupled with nearly no perceptive fatigue going through the tour or Giro and you're not going to be able to compete with that even in your prime.

[David Kirk]

It seems like whenever Lemond and Armstrong are brought up there is the same discussion…who ‘really’ doped and it seems like there is no way to definitively answer that question. The “they all did it so it was a level playing field” argument might have merit but it’s far from being accepted fact that “they all did it” and it’s more an assumption. We don’t know, and will never know.

What we do know with 100% certainty is that Armstrong doped and took part in a conspiracy to cover it up. We do know for a fact that when Lemond was working to expose Armstrong’s doping that Armstrong threatened to go public with the story that Lemond had suffered sexual abuse as a boy at the hands of a relative. Armstrong was trying to shut Lemond up with this threat. We also know with certainty that Lemond decided to release the info himself instead of being bullied by Armstrong. Armstrong was hoping to shame Lemond into silence but Lemond knew there was no shame in being a victim of sexual abuse. What is shameful is threatening an abuse victim with exposure in an effort to keep them quiet about doping and the conspiracy to carry it out and cover it up.

We also know that Armstrong went to Trek and told them to kill the Lemond brand or that he would leave Trek…so Trek did Armstrong’s dirty work and killed a profitable bike brand to appease him. This of course caused both Trek and Greg Lemond to loose a huge amount of money.

We also know all about the threats to Betsy and Frankie Andreu to shut them up. And the threats to Floyd Landis…and so on.

Did Armstrong dope and lie and conspire to win the TdF? That’s a proven fact. Did Lemond and everyone else dope in their own way, in their own time?…maybe. Maybe not. No proof has been put forward. Did Armstrong prove without a shadow of a doubt what a lousy human being he is by treating Lemond and countless others the way he did? I don’t know how anyone could disagree with this. Is Armstrong continuing to profit from his literal crimes? Yes.

I was a huge Armstrong fan during his career. His race craft was the best. He could read a race like no other and it served him well. He was a staggeringly good racer and extremely entertaining to watch at the same time he’s also a despicable person who lied and bullied and threatened those around him to keep his secret covered up. He benefitted by countless millions of dollars for acting the way he did. Crime pays and it pays well.

So when I hear the “they all did it” I can’t honestly disagree when it comes to doping….but they all didn’t do all the other stuff that all too many Armstrong fans want to conveniently forget. Armstrong was a doper and for that I can forgive him. The other stuff is unforgivable.

dave