Breathing?

[MikeD]

Belly breathing. Use your diaphragm. Inhale, stomach out; exhale, stomach in.

[pinoymamba]

Me breathing like a fish out of water in Z1-Z7

[jimoots]

This might seem a little dismissive and grouchy, but I'm someone who does get into the weeds with training and the science behind it all (as well as really enjoying training!)... so don't take it as me being a grouch.

I generally just treat breathing like pedalling... it just happens. On occasion I might try and slow my breathing down mid-effort, but really I don't think about it and it's worked out OK so far... maybe I'm gifted at breathing (read: I'm probably not).

[RWL2222]

Originally Posted by bikinchris

I've seen it a dozen times where an athlete from another sport shows up for the ride and begins to school us all on the proper breathing methods using mostly the nose. It never failed that about a quarter way through the ride, he looked like a guppy breathing with his mouth gulping air in his futile attempt to stay in the group.

Originally Posted by dcama5

Wasn't going to enter this discussion, but it's interesting. I retired at 70 years old last September as the clinical manager of respiratory care and pulmonary diagnostics at Winchester Medical Center. I may have retired sooner but my office was dead center of a 48-bed adult ICU and COVID hit. I just could not jump ship when the ICU looked like a war zone, but that's another story.

With breathing, there are a few things to keep in mind. 1) ventilation increases with increases in arterial blood pCO2 and the corresponding decreases in blood pH. The control for breathing is physiologic, and it is probably not a good idea to try to interfere with your intellect. You would not try to control kidney or liver function with your intellect, so why lung function?

2) Remember, increases in ventilation have very little to do do with the transport of oxygen to muscles during exercise. The formula for oxygen transport (oxygen delivery) is: DO2 = CO X ( 1.34 X Hb X SaO2). That's oxygen delivery = cardiac output times the quantity of hemoglobin times the saturation of Hb with oxygen. The 1.34 is a multiplier because a gram of Hb can carry 1.34ml of oxygen. Ventilation is not in this equation. With a normal SaO2 and Hb level, it's almost exclusively due to cardiac output.

3) My pulmonary lab team did VO2max studies on compensated heart failure patients for the heart failure team. During the test, CO2 production and O2 consumption were measured as work rate ramped up. the O2 line ramped up above the CO2 line and both ramped up with increases in work rate. At a certain point, the CO2 line spiked up and crossed the O2 line. That was the increase in ventilation associated with lactate threshold - a sudden spike in ventilation. On the bike, going uphill hard, that would correspond to the point where ventilation suddenly increases dramatically (increased rate and depth of breathing). VO2max follows that point and depends on fitness and pain tolerance.

4) I have seen some talk of mouth versus nose breathing. I only have my opinion, but I don't think it matters. Reuben pointed out mouth breathers. I say, do what feels right and take your intellect out of it.

Better sleep is the goal here: If I could somehow train my bod to breathe through my nose, I'd sleep better, and so would the wife. Happiness all around. I am not trying to override the central nervous system, or turn into an O2 absorption monster, just trying to get better zzz's, and ride better as a result, with maybe a bonus of faster recovery on the descents.

[HenryA]

I’ve found that well trained swimmers usually make a quick transition to the bike. One of the characteristics of breathing and swimming is entrainment. Entrainment happens on the bike too. Look it up.

[weaponsgrade]

When the group starts pinning it I find I start tensing up in the shoulders and my breathing gets short - which is exactly the opposite of what I should be doing. I have to remind myself to focus on pushing my diaphragm down.

[flying]

Originally Posted by reuben

As a counterpoint, I will say that Wout van Aert is an absolutely stellar world class athlete mouth breather. But maybe he's an exception in breathing, as well as other areas.

I think this could go two ways
Mouth breather
or also
Some folks believe relaxed jaw lowers body tense
So could be energy management too as one could inhale thru nose with mouth open too

Folks like Bob Roll use to say even hands on bar tops thumbs on top for that tiny less tension
I will never know but it must be nice to be at those levels where every bit matters

[Bobde1234]

At the least this thread has been entertaining, and with food for thought.

[Rpoole8537]

'"Looked like a guppy". That is hilarious!

[bikinchris]

Originally Posted by Rpoole8537

'"Looked like a guppy". That is hilarious!

Yeah, eyes wide open, mouth wide open gulping for air as he slides out the back of the group.

[bikinchris]

Originally Posted by flying

I think this could go two ways
Mouth breather
or also
Some folks believe relaxed jaw lowers body tense
So could be energy management too as one could inhale thru nose with mouth open too

Folks like Bob Roll use to say even hands on bar tops thumbs on top for that tiny less tension
I will never know but it must be nice to be at those levels where every bit matters

One of the "secrets" of going really fast is relaxed effort. Straining to go harder only eats up effort and involves muscles that have nothing to do with going faster.

[lavi]

Originally Posted by RWL2222

Better sleep is the goal here: If I could somehow train my bod to breathe through my nose, I'd sleep better, and so would the wife. Happiness all around. I am not trying to override the central nervous system, or turn into an O2 absorption monster, just trying to get better zzz's, and ride better as a result, with maybe a bonus of faster recovery on the descents.

That's easy...and what I've done. 1" of surgical tape on the lips at night. Easy peasy.