Why does this work? Campag/Shimano mix

[macaroon]

I've accidentally come up with a hack to use Campagnolo shifters/mechs with Shimano cassettes. I thought I'd post it here as it might be of interest to some of you. I'm also not entirely sure why it works - let me know your opinion.

Setup is 10 speed Veloce Ultrashift levers, Chorus 11 speed rear mech with a Shimano/SRAM 10 speed rear cassette.

I was using this setup on a previous bike, but with a Jtek shiftmate. It worked well. However, I was unable to install the Shiftmate on this bike due to the route the cable takes from the exit port on the chainstay
.
I've attached some photos of the setup below. It's shown with a 36 tooth Shimano cassette (no mech hanger extender required, for some reason?), but it works just as well with the 28 tooth SRAM cassette I was using previously.

My thoughts as to why it works:

1) Outer cable between the frame and mech is too short, which stops the mech upper jockey wheel from sitting close to the sprockets. This increased distance, combined with the lateral movement in the jockey wheel takes up the discrepancy between the mech movement (seem to recall a Campag mech moves more than a Shimano per click, and the movement isn't uniform) and the sprocket spacing.

2) I put a large kink in the inner cable to provide more friction on the Shiftmate pulley wheel. As previously stated, the Shiftmate ended up not working, but I couldn't be bothered replacing the inner cable due to the internal frame routing. My thought is the kink lessens the mech travel for the first few clicks of the shifter, until there's enough tension to straighten it out. Not sure how plausible this is, though.

What do you think?

The shift quality is obviously not 100%, but it's pretty close. There's no mis-shifts or rumbling noises/skipping. I'm using a single ring at the front, and I can back pedal in the largest sprocket and the chain doesn't drop, either.

[quacker2000]

I'm trying to understand what you actually did here? You put a kink in a part of the cable that's in housing?

I've done campy 10spd shifters to 9speed Shimano mech and cassettes for a while, but that's using a alternative cable clamping angle at the mech to adjust the pull ratio...

[oldpotatoe]

Not really surprised. Campag 10s shifters and a Campag 11s rear der 'does' 'over shift' a wee bit and since shimano 10s cogs are closer together than Campag 10s..not surprised this would work.

There is a lot of stuff that's 'wow this works', type thing..like 2008/9 Campag Powershift levers with sram(eww) 10s rear der shifts shimano 10s spacing...Lennard Zinn showed me that...

[quacker2000]

The real questions are why? And what made you think to try?

[dddd]

Shimano and SRAM 10 cassettes are just a bit special, in that they are narrow enough so that you can mount any (must start with 12t) 10s cassette on any Shimano 7s cassette hub having both HG lockring threads and external smallest-cog threading.
I have a very nice Klein bike that will always have 126mm rear spacing, and I was happy to discover that (using one of the longer-threaded 11t lockrings) a 12-30t 10s cassette has all of the cogs engaging ample spline contact on the bike's original Ultegra 7s hub.
I have had no unwanted contact at the spokes or against the frame.
I've sourced suitably-long-threaded 11t lockrings from certain SRAM and SR-Suntour cassettes, and have found such longer-threaded 11t lockrings on the Temu site (described as a "Toopre flywheel locking cover" iir).

[SDJ]

Been running this for years and posting it in several forums - but the skepticism was always quite notable

10s ergos (US and PS) with 10 speed rear derailleurs (from veloce to record)
Also
11 speed ergos 1st gen with 10 speed RDs
Also
11 speed ergos 2nd gen with 11 speed 2nd gen (post 2015) RDs

All running with up to 11-36 Shimano/sram (and 11-32;11-34) cassettes - and even 11-40 with a wolftooth extender

Riding road, road+, cyclocross

[macaroon]

Originally Posted by quacker2000

I'm trying to understand what you actually did here? You put a kink in a part of the cable that's in housing?

I've done campy 10spd shifters to 9speed Shimano mech and cassettes for a while, but that's using a alternative cable clamping angle at the mech to adjust the pull ratio...

Yes, kink in the cable running in the housing at the rear mech. Whether it makes a difference, or whether it would work without, I'm not sure. Guess I'll find out when I replace the cable.

Originally Posted by oldpotatoe

Not really surprised. Campag 10s shifters and a Campag 11s rear der 'does' 'over shift' a wee bit and since shimano 10s cogs are closer together than Campag 10s..not surprised this would work.

There is a lot of stuff that's 'wow this works', type thing..like 2008/9 Campag Powershift levers with sram(eww) 10s rear der shifts shimano 10s spacing...Lennard Zinn showed me that...

Perhaps your first paragraph is the answer. I never tried this without aShiftmate as I presumed it would not work.

As for the SRAM rear mechs - I've tried those and they don't work as well as this, plus the lever action is much heavier.

[macaroon]

Originally Posted by quacker2000

The real questions are why? And what made you think to try?

I've run Campag with Shimano cassettes for many years. I think I initially did it because of a lack of availability of the appropriate Campag freehub body/end cap for my DT Swiss hubs. I carried on due to the weight/price/availability of Shimano/SRAM cassettes.

[jds108]

Originally Posted by dddd

I've sourced suitably-long-threaded 11t lockrings from certain SRAM and SR-Suntour cassettes, and have found such longer-threaded 11t lockrings on the Temu site (described as a "Toopre flywheel locking cover" iir).

Interesting and informative little tidbit there. I didn't know that was a thing.
Thanks!

[Ralph]

Because…Last 10 speed Veloce shifters are compatible (pull ratio) with early Campy 11 RD's. (lots of us use Campy 10 shifters with Athena 11 Long cage Rd and 10 cassette.) Campy 11 cassettes are close to Shimano/Sram 11 speed center on center.
Early 11 Campy shifters are also compatible with last Campy 10 RD’s and csssettes.

[Gummee]

I've got an otherwise all Chorus 11 setup shifting Shimano cassettes just fine

Haven't tried 10sp or 12sp Campy shifters on Shimano wheels yet. No need.

M