Performance, Bike Geometry, and the "Placebo Effect."

[Waldo62]

Originally Posted by Germany_chris

I’m 6’1” with a short inseam and I’m at 73.5 cm

I guess I'm a conventionally proportioned 6'1" and I'm at 77.5, although I've shortened my seat height by running mid-sole cleats.

[cgates66]

Geo. can definitely affect handling, but your speed improvements are almost certainly from riding frequently at a high pace. The bike didn't make you faster. And if what you say about your body is right, then the bike may be making you slower.

You describe yourself as "6'1, with short legs". Your setup, however, suggests (1) your legs are relatively long or (2) your saddle is way too high.

With 810mm BB-seat using the Lemond formula, that's about right for 36"+ cycling inseam (inseam x .883) - maybe 34" pants. Not outlier-long, but far from short. If you have measurements like that, your swimming will be challenged (I do and mine is).

I'm a similar height, and I have a 36" proper cycling inseam (pants are a different story of course), which is relatively long. I personally find Lemond to be just a smidge too high with my current setup; I run about 805mm, but have run higher in the past.

If it works for you, don't necessarily change it, but consider measuring yourself and if your leg is really straight with the pedal at 6 o'clock, you may want to play with that saddle height.

[MoparPorsche]

I know this may be a different take, but I am not sure I would term how you feel as placebo, because isn't an important part of riding gaining some sort of psychological benefit regardless of the source? Its can be similar to a "runners high".

[Waldo62]

The set-up in the Firefly geo chart is not what you're running, but what you're running is obviously working for you. Enjoy it. If you can get the ACTUAL NUMBERS for your fit, do so, so that you can have your next bike fit similarly.

Let's ride soon. (My son and your daughter are in the same class again)

Originally Posted by XXtwindad

My Firefly has been nothing short of a revelation. At least I think so. But maybe it's in my head. A good cycling buddy thinks so.

This morning, on a flat (slightly downhill) section of street in Oakland, a cyclist passed me like I wasn't event there. I thought he actually had a motor. Long story short, I caught up with him, and we raced until the stoplight. I edged him out. Granted, my cycling fitness has improved significantly during the Pandemic. I'm on my exercise bike 5x per week with the resistance cranked up.

But I'm curious how much of progress is my own fitness and how much can be attributed to the bike. I absolutely love the way this bike rides. Tyler at Firefly said it was built to be a pure racing bike. It was built for someone like myself: longer torso and shorter legs in the six feet one(ish) range. The "trail" is 59. The chain stays are slightly longer (415cm). Those factors make descending an absolute pleasure. I can rail the descents, whereas before, I was a chicken****, especially on a rim brake bike. Once again, my buddy thinks this is mostly the placebo effect. I disagree, particularly when it comes to the descending element of the equation. I never knew what the expression "in the bike" meant until riding my Firefly.

I'm curious what others think. Can the bike itself actually make that much of a difference? Or is it like the famous Edison quote that genius is "one percent inspiration and 99 percent perspiration," with the bike being the "inspiration?"

P.S. I've attached the Firefly geo. I have a 110 stem on it. This seems like the ideal geo for a race bike built for me.

[weisan]

It's all real....EXCEPT

it would be a complete fallacy or a lie to thereby conclude that ONLY....

a high-end, branded bike or framebuilder

or geometry itself is

all it takes

to get there.

It's not a fixed equation.

It's a dynamic, fluid situation with variables and different moving parts.

And not just based on one metric or measure of success.

[Ken Robb]

Originally Posted by Waldo62

I guess I'm a conventionally proportioned 6'1" and I'm at 77.5, although I've shortened my seat height by running mid-sole cleats.

I thought my legs were a bit on the short side but my PBH is 89 and my saddles are around 78cm so maybe my legs aren't so short after all.

[XXtwindad]

Originally Posted by charliedid

Ride more think less...

Think more. Write less.

[XXtwindad]

Originally Posted by Waldo62

The set-up in the Firefly geo chart is not what you're running, but what you're running is obviously working for you. Enjoy it. If you can get the ACTUAL NUMBERS for your fit, do so, so that you can have your next bike fit similarly.

Let's ride soon. (My son and your daughter are in the same class again)

Yes, the geo is different for me than what the original owner had. My saddle height is at 762. Let's definitely ride soon! Hope the ride to LA was great! Yes, our kids are in the same "class" again. Little different classrooms, unfortunately.

[charliedid]

Originally Posted by XXtwindad

Think more. Write less.

[wallymann]

The original owner's geo chart is made to order for me... literally only 3mm difference in only one of the key position measurements!

Nice to hear you have been able to adjust and make it work for you as well.

[uber]

6'2" with 812 height. I have several road bikes that "measure" virtually the same in many parameters, but they do feel a bit different. I do believe that when all the stars line up, a well fit bike is magic. Enjoy every pedal stroke.

[Peter P.]

I vote for the Placebo effect.

The only thing "unusual" I see in the geometry sheet is the 73 degree head angle, and the slightly higher trail figure. Most of the time, road racing/performance frames in your size have a 73.5-74 degree head angle.

The bike may have handling qualities you're not used to because of this and you may find it new and enjoyable, hence the better performance.

You'll slow down soon enough.

[Dave]

Originally Posted by Germany_chris

I’m 6’1” with a short inseam and I’m at 73.5 cm

I'm 5'-6" with a 73cm saddle height.

[steveoz]

I know sometimes I am really flying on the bike! then I reach my turnaround point and have to fight the headwind all the way home

[eddief]

it's about your wallet / placebo. i used to call it newbikeitis. you spend a bundle on something and you want to / need to justify the expense. so your brain goes into overdrive to make it so. if, indeed, this is a newer bike, get back to us in a few thousand miles and see if the feelings are still the same. i honestly hope so. the combo of blowing a bunch o money and being satisfied is a great experience. bike love is a complicated thing with so many variables it can be a challenge for all the stars to line up and ensure your brain and body know what they're feeling and have your words align.

it seems Firefly knows what they're doing and they do the most gorgeous of machines, but that does not mean it translates when you are on the streets of the East Bay. HOPE IT DOES!