The official Campagnolo WRL discussion thread

[glepore]

I'm a Campy fanboy, but a groupset priced higher than some very nice complete bikes? With those crazy buttons that invite missed shifts? A $5500 groupset is a relevant to me as a Lambo Hurrican.

Hard pass.

[Mark McM]

Originally Posted by cgolvin

As someone who loves to climb and regularly traverses some lengthy steep grades, I was quick to adopt and like the Chorus 12 48/32 crankset paired with an 11-32 cassette. To my view, the 45/29 and 10-29 pairing is a clear improvement for the slightly greater range and no 4 tooth jump to the granny gear. I look forward to that configuration coming to Record and Chorus.

I agree that the 4 tooth jump on the 11-32 is undesireable, but the gearing range, and average jumps between gears, is hardly any different between those two setups. The 45/10 combination is only 3% larger than the 48/11 combination, the 29/29 is identical to the 32/32, and the average jump between rear sprockets is 10.1% for the 10-29 vs. 10.2% for the 11-32. Frankly, I'm disappointed.

Originally Posted by cgolvin

I roll my eyes whenever I hear the word "intuitive" applied to a group's shifting setup. For all but an infinitesimal portion of the total time spent riding a groupset, shifting is all muscle memory. I'm pretty certain that a rigorous study measuring adjustment time from one OEM's design to another's would show that the difference is negligible irrespective of the brands. To me, the existing Campy design (i.e., with thumb shifter) "makes sense" but experience tells me that riding a Shimano or SRAM setup is a very, very simple transition with only one or two wrong shifts. /rant

After starting out with downtube shifters, I actually found Campagnolo's Ergo/Ultra shifters far more intuitive. If you were to move the derailleurs directly by hand, your hands would move identically to how Ergo/Ultra shifters operate. If you grabbed the rear parallogram from the top with your right hand, you'd push the parallogram inward with your fingers to go to bigger sprockets, and outward with your thumb to move to smaller sprockets. If you were to move the front parallogram with your left hand, you'd move push the parallogram outward with your fingers to move to bigger chainrings, and inward with your thumb to move to smaller chainrings.

[RoosterCogset]

Any chance this groupset will make into any halo complete bike models from the big bike companies such as Trek, Specialized, Cdale, Canyon, Giant, etc?

[d_douglas]

I would only ride in those shorts with the matching jersey.

Well, I think it looks amazing and beautiful and I am sure its gonna work great.

That said, when I see a picture of a person pairing their shifters to a cellphone, that makes me not want to own said product.

If money was no object, I would just buy a mechanical disc SR group and be done. I know the ratios are different, but fooling around with technology on a bike doesnt interest me.

Its still gorgeous though!

[vespasianus]

I just look at this and wonder how nice the system would be with the EKAR thumb button...

And no, I don't want or see the need for a 1X wireless system.

[cgolvin]

Originally Posted by Mark McM

I agree that the 4 tooth jump on the 11-32 is undesireable, but the gearing range, and average jumps between gears, is hardly any different between those two setups. The 45/10 combination is only 3% larger than the 48/11 combination, the 29/29 is identical to the 32/32, and the average jump between rear sprockets is 10.1% for the 10-29 vs. 10.2% for the 11-32. Frankly, I'm disappointed.

I didn't mean to imply that this new configuration is a significant improvement, just that I find the Chorus subcompact with 11-32 nearly perfect for my riding and this (mostly) addresses the tiny shortcomings -- namely the single 4 tooth jump and the size of the biggest gear (the Ekar 9 would be welcome).

Originally Posted by Mark McM

After starting out with downtube shifters, I actually found Campagnolo's Ergo/Ultra shifters far more intuitive. If you were to move the derailleurs directly by hand, your hands would move identically to how Ergo/Ultra shifters operate. If you grabbed the rear parallogram from the top with your right hand, you'd push the parallogram inward with your fingers to go to bigger sprockets, and outward with your thumb to move to smaller sprockets. If you were to move the front parallogram with your left hand, you'd move push the parallogram outward with your fingers to move to bigger chainrings, and inward with your thumb to move to smaller chainrings.

I may not have expressed myself clearly enough. I agree with you, to my logical brain the actions of the shifters "make sense" for the same reasons that they make sense to you, and when I moved from down tube shifters I thought this logic made the transition easy. In reality, I'm certain that I would have adapted quite quickly to another manufacturer's design and would have created a mental model for why it made sense. I really don't think there is any intuition here, just building muscle memory.

[teleguy57]

Hmmm. Maybe I need to look for someone who wants to upgrade and take their v4 EPS off their hands. Bought my Domane+ with 105 Di2 12 thinking I might want to move back to Campy since this was my first foray into both electronic shifting and Shimano. After almost 800 miles my muscle memory still wants to use the lower right button to downshift....

[mcteague]

Originally Posted by d_douglas

I would only ride in those shorts with the matching jersey.

Well, I think it looks amazing and beautiful and I am sure its gonna work great.

That said, when I see a picture of a person pairing their shifters to a cellphone, that makes me not want to own said product.

If money was no object, I would just buy a mechanical disc SR group and be done. I know the ratios are different, but fooling around with technology on a bike doesnt interest me.

Its still gorgeous though!

It is??? IMO , the days of really good looking parts is far behind us. I think Shimano has the best looking group by virtue of being the least ugly. I have SRAM Red AXS on one bike and Campy Record 12 mechanical on the other. Rim brake calipers always look better than disk. Both of my RDs are kinda ugly but the Campy ones are the worst …..again IMO. However, once used to them I really don’t even notice anymore. Pixel peeping on the web is another thing altogether.

Tim

[saab2000]

Originally Posted by mcteague

It is??? IMO , the days of really good looking parts is far behind us. I think Shimano has the best looking group by virtue of being the least ugly. I have SRAM Red AXS on one bike and Campy Record 12 mechanical on the other. Rim brake calipers always look better than disk. Both of my RDs are kinda ugly but the Campy ones are the worst …..again IMO. However, once used to them I really don’t even notice anymore. Pixel peeping on the web is another thing altogether.

Tim

I agree with this. There are really no beautiful groups or components anymore.

That said, I think this will be fine. The crank is quite nice. Agreed that discs are rarely attractive, but Campagnolo’s are as decent as they can be.

I won’t be a hater on this. Mostly I hope the shifters are really comfortable and easy to use. If either turns out to be untrue this could be a hard sell for Campagnolo.

[Mark McM]

Originally Posted by cgolvin

I may not have expressed myself clearly enough. I agree with you, to my logical brain the actions of the shifters "make sense" for the same reasons that they make sense to you, and when I moved from down tube shifters I thought this logic made the transition easy. In reality, I'm certain that I would have adapted quite quickly to another manufacturer's design and would have created a mental model for why it made sense. I really don't think there is any intuition here, just building muscle memory.

This I agree with. Since the advent of indexed shifting, the hardest part for riders newly introduced to multi-geared bilks is figuring out is when to shift and what gear to be in. The actual motion to shift the gear is the easy part. For someone who is already familiar with using multi-geared bikes, learning a new shifting systems is typically just a matter of minutes. I hadn't heard the word "intuitive" so strongly associated with a shifting system until SRAM e-tap - and that was mostly from the marketting/sales people. I've heard a few riders who have described e-tap as intuitive - but that was only after the sales person had already explained to them how intutitive it was.

[krooj]

I do wonder about the weight of that RD: it's around 300g without the battery, and at that point, I have to imagine that shifting could suffer as a result of relying on a classic hangar vs some direct-attach system, like SRAM is adopting. Keep in mind that an old 10 sp Record RD was ~185g and even a modern Dura Ace 9200 RD is quite light.

In any case, it's not the worst looking thing in the world; I'd ride it, but let's see what the online retailers actually sell it for, since cycling MSRPs are anchored in the same reality as a US medical "bill".

[saab2000]

Originally Posted by krooj

I do wonder about the weight of that RD: it's around 300g without the battery, and at that point, I have to imagine that shifting could suffer as a result of relying on a classic hangar vs some direct-attach system, like SRAM is adopting.

I was thinking the exact same thing. It seems like today the traditional derailleur hanger is obsolete and allows for some less rigidity. I think SRAM is onto something and maybe it’s time for others to see if that something is worthy of attention.

[denapista]

Originally Posted by RoosterCogset

Any chance this groupset will make into any halo complete bike models from the big bike companies such as Trek, Specialized, Cdale, Canyon, Giant, etc?

I recall Campy exited the manufacture complete bike group business model. You can only get SRAM or Shimano on complete bikes now...

[jimoots]

Maybe this is a bit too abstract or existential or whatever, but for me it was more worrying than disappointing or underwhelming.

Campy made a number of moves with this group to meet the market. But it feels like they are making both aesthetic and functional sacrifices to meet the market.

The problem with that strategy is you're not actually going to win over that many new customers by ditching the thumb shifter or 'keeping gear changes tight' or even with those bulbous wireless derailleurs. Like who is this actually for. What scale is this going to sell at to capture market share. Trickle down, maybe.

I know others will say Campy are in great financial health, and maybe they are, but in terms of 'relevance health' it feels like they're fiddling while Rome burns. The market is literally screaming for 13spd electronic and their response is 'nothing to see here'. There's a disconnection with reality or something going on.

But yeah, discussion around price is largely noise, I mean it's Super Record. It's always *just more* and a great example of diminishing returns.

[saab2000]

Originally Posted by denapista

I recall Campy exited the manufacture complete bike group business model. You can only get SRAM or Shimano on complete bikes now...

Specialized did a launch edition of their gravel bike when Ekar came out. So maybe in limited numbers.