GCN goes looking for "Peak Bike" on a Pegoretti-built Pinarello

[fourflys]

meh.. give me a geo design that is actually made for your average cyclist (like a true endurance bike) and I'll take that over a classic TDF bike all day long..

cool bike for sure and would be cool for a spin down to the coffee shop, but I'm not convinced it would be as comfy as it could be with a modern bike I suppose..

[slowpoke]

On old frames with a threaded fork, you could easily the height of the bars with a taller stem. Personally, fitting larger tires is the main issue.

This little comment was a gem:

The steel tubing arms race of the 90's and early 2000's was epic. Legendary manufacturers Columbus, Dedacciai, Reynolds, Tange and True Temper pushing the properties of steel to the absolute limit. Sculpted lugs gave way to shaped tubes with hidden internal lugs and insanely thin sections that became characters themselves in some metialurgical anorexic fever dream. Thron, Genius, Cyber, Foco, 853, Infiti, OS III Ultimate, SAT 14.2 and the legendary EOM 16.5. Demigods all of them forged in fire, science, and blood.

[martl]

Originally Posted by El Chaba

If the Jimenez bike had fit him properly, (It was custom made for him) the tester would have been the same speed on it…or better. I find it funny that as the industry has come up with one “innovation” after another, each one “game changing” ….tubeless tires, electronic shifting, disc brakes, aero frames with internal cables, ad nauseum…that the cumulative effect of these is ……nothing. Well, nothing except how unserviceable, especially in the field, bikes have become and fairly noted in the video. One point that was not emphasized enough was the difference in the two eras of racing. In Jimenez’ day, the suppliers went to such lengths with custom geometry, etc to provide the riders they sponsored with the best possible equipment. Today so many pros are fit like a train wreck because they have to shoehorn themselves on whatever size/geometry their sponsor pops out of a mold in the Far East. Give me the Jimenez bike any day of the week.

the Jimenez bike is, as is mentioned in the clip, the last hurrah of the steel bike and is rather heavy. Only one or two years later every competitor was on Aluminium or even CFK chich were stiffer and at least a kilo/2 lbs lighter; ONCE used Kleins, USPS was on OCLV, Mapei on C40, only the poor buggers at Kelme had to heave Corima Cougars around which weigh about as much as Indurains C Record lugged stell did (and probably rode worse), ironically so, as they had some very small and light colombian climbers in their ranks...but they were the exception

had they used a pimped out top contenders bike from 1998 for the comparison, the difference would have been even slimmer if existing at all, let alone a, say, 2009 top bike. And still Boonen wasnt t at a disadvantage when he rode P-R on his private Pego

[benb]

Originally Posted by Mr steel

They also had copious amounts of, erhm, let's call them performance enhancing stimulants

They didn't have any of the good stuff they have now.

[jamesdak]

"The steel tubing arms race of the 90's and early 2000's was epic. Legendary manufacturers Columbus, Dedacciai, Reynolds, Tange and True Temper pushing the properties of steel to the absolute limit. Sculpted lugs gave way to shaped tubes with hidden internal lugs and insanely thin sections that became characters themselves in some metialurgical anorexic fever dream. Thron, Genius, Cyber, Foco, 853, Infiti, OS III Ultimate, SAT 14.2 and the legendary EOM 16.5. Demigods all of them forged in fire, science, and blood."

Out of all the steel to pass through my hands this 1999 Coppi is the pinnacle to me. At least in terms of trying to do aero with the steel frame tubing. Every tube on the bike is shaped except for the seat post. Top tube ovalized, head tube teardrop shaped with the pointy side forward, down tube teardrop shaped, seat stays down low and bladed, chain stays ovalized, the fork is weird in that it's blades are crimped triangular but the pointy end points out not forward. The whole bike with all the alloy parts, hefty saddle and fairly heavy wheels only weighs 20 lbs 2 ozs and could easily be less with lighter parts. Full C.F. tubular wheels and a proper road saddle would easily put it under 19 lbs.. It is a rocket under me yet nowhere near stiff feeling. Once you get above 20 mph it seems to just take off on its own as you ease off on your pedaling effort.

This one is oversized Neuron Mega tubing.

[Dadoflam]

Originally Posted by slowpoke

On old frames with a threaded fork, you could easily the height of the bars with a taller stem. Personally, fitting larger tires is the main issue.

This little comment was a gem:

I have a few 90's steel and allow frames - no issue fitting 25's or 28's compared to the carbon frames in the early 2000's - the brake caliper clearance is usually the limiting factor. Much better than the carbon frames of the early 2000's.

[Dadoflam]

Originally Posted by jamesdak

"The steel tubing arms race of the 90's and early 2000's was epic. Legendary manufacturers Columbus, Dedacciai, Reynolds, Tange and True Temper pushing the properties of steel to the absolute limit. Sculpted lugs gave way to shaped tubes with hidden internal lugs and insanely thin sections that became characters themselves in some metialurgical anorexic fever dream. Thron, Genius, Cyber, Foco, 853, Infiti, OS III Ultimate, SAT 14.2 and the legendary EOM 16.5. Demigods all of them forged in fire, science, and blood."

Out of all the steel to pass through my hands this 1999 Coppi is the pinnacle to me. At least in terms of trying to do aero with the steel frame tubing. Every tube on the bike is shaped except for the seat post. Top tube ovalized, head tube teardrop shaped with the pointy side forward, down tube teardrop shaped, seat stays down low and bladed, chain stays ovalized, the fork is weird in that it's blades are crimped triangular but the pointy end points out not forward. The whole bike with all the alloy parts, hefty saddle and fairly heavy wheels only weighs 20 lbs 2 ozs and could easily be less with lighter parts. Full C.F. tubular wheels and a proper road saddle would easily put it under 19 lbs.. It is a rocket under me yet nowhere near stiff feeling. Once you get above 20 mph it seems to just take off on its own as you ease off on your pedaling effort.

This one is oversized Neuron Mega tubing.

Stunning framebuilding.

[Dadoflam]

The early work of Dario Pegoretti is my thing and I'm fortunate to own three frames made by him for Pinna for the Banesto and Telekom teams.

This one gets ridden from time to time - it was made for Jean Francois Bernard for the '94 season. Dario signed it during a visit to Verona in 2017.

It is very comfortable for all-day riding by virtue of being extremely light tubing. The frame weighs 1620g which is pretty good for a 57 steel.

I'm not trying to break any records, our group rides only steel and Ti and spends more time than most admiring our bikes whilst drinking coffee between hills. Suits my needs perfectly. The older Campy shifts like butter.

For the '93 and '94 season pro bikes Dario used Excell tubing, which he preferred, instead of Oria which were the team sponsors.

[Spaghetti Legs]

I have a mid 90’s Gios Compact Pro (welded Deda steel) and Carrera Zeus (I think) which is lugged Columbus EL-OS. I also have a ‘96 Lampre color way C40 with steel fork. The Carrera is my favorite bike out of a stable of about 20 and, other than the fear of crashing it, would be my choice to race. The C40 is wonderful and probably a better bike overall for all day riding and comfort.

The welds on my Gios, interestingly, seem a little cleaner than the Pinarello in the video. Maybe just the paint color though.

[jet sanchez]

Originally Posted by Dadoflam

The early work of Dario Pegoretti is my thing and I'm fortunate to own three frames made by him for Pinna for the Banesto and Telekom teams.

This one gets ridden from time to time - it was made for Jean Francois Bernard for the '94 season. Dario signed it during a visit to Verona in 2017.

It is very comfortable for all-day riding by virtue of being extremely light tubing. The frame weighs 1620g which is pretty good for a 57 steel.

I'm not trying to break any records, our group rides only steel and Ti and spends more time than most admiring our bikes whilst drinking coffee between hills. Suits my needs perfectly. The older Campy shifts like butter.

For the '93 and '94 season pro bikes Dario used Excell tubing, which he preferred, instead of Oria which were the team sponsors.

Very interesting, how did you manage to find out that Pegoretti made the Telekom frame?

I own one of Olaf Ludwig’s rigs from either the ‘94 or ‘95 season and it has no tubing stickers on it anywhere….

[Dadoflam]

During the 90’s Dario was contracted by Pinarello to build some of the frames for the teams Pinarello was sponsoring. This included the TIG welded frames for Banesto 1993-1997 and Telekom 1997 and possibly 1996.

Telekom was riding Merckx bikes in 1995 and these were not made by Pegoretti.

I have a 1997 Deutsche Telekom team bike – a custom Pinarello Paris which were the mainstay frames for the team that year. Erik Zabel confirmed that Dario was making their team frames and dealing directly with the riders regarding details that season.

Telekom was riding Pinarello Keral-Lite model frames in 1996 – this was an unusual ceramic-alloy tubing that was very hard to weld and resulted in very messy welds. I am not sure if Dario was responsible for these frames.

The frames that Dario made for Pro teams were tools of the trade and the welding was not as refined as was usual on the frames he built for the public. In part that was due to the large number of frames that needed to be built – 90 alone for Banesto in one season, and, famously, 25 for Pantani alone in one season. According to Dario it was also due to some of the tubing being used for some of the pro frames which was lighter, and more difficult to weld than stock tubing.

Apologies for the image - it doesn't want to attach the right way up.

[Dadoflam]

[QUOTE=Spaghetti Legs;3367026]I have a mid 90’s Gios Compact Pro (welded Deda steel) and Carrera Zeus (I think) which is lugged Columbus EL-OS. I also have a ‘96 Lampre color way C40 with steel fork. The Carrera is my favorite bike out of a stable of about 20 and, other than the fear of crashing it, would be my choice to race. The C40 is wonderful and probably a better bike overall for all day riding and comfort.

The welds on my Gios, interestingly, seem a little cleaner than the Pinarello in the video. Maybe just the paint color though.

The welding on Pro frames was rougher than bikes sold to the public - so very likely your welds are much cleaner.