Is Dura Ace now an "Ultra Tier" Groupset?

[benb]

It's been a while now but I ran a Tiagra group to the point it was all worn out and that was noticeably faster than 105 would wear out.

At that point it was almost a case where if you're going to put in the miles the Tiagra was in no way cost effective versus the 105 because 105 was not 2x as expensive but some of the critical expensive components would last more than 2x as long.

If Shimano raises the prices of everything that still does not mean a $500 Sora/Tiagra set from today is as good as a $500 105 from 10+ years ago.

Some of the materials issues seem to become more critical as the # of cogs goes up too.

[rice rocket]

Originally Posted by batman1425

Microshift makes the best value components in the industry at the moment IMO. The early stuff they made, which came on some Felt Bikes as OEM BITD not so good but more recent offerings are very nice offerings for the money. A lot of folks figured this out during the worst of the shortages when Si/Sr/Ca parts were nowhere to be found but Microshift could be found easily. Some bits are even drop in replacements for other manuf. components.

I agree, I bought a $1200 gravel bike for my father and was pleasantly surprised w/ how well the Microshift setup performed.

They probably benefitted from Taiwan's early successes against covid, they've been near zero cases until May of this year.

[fourflys]

Originally Posted by benb

It's been a while now but I ran a Tiagra group to the point it was all worn out and that was noticeably faster than 105 would wear out.

Guess I'm not convinced today's Tiagra is the same as 4 or 5 years ago.. maybe that's wishful thinking based on price increases, etc, but..

some of the Shimano marketing certainly differentiates DA/Ultegra/105 from everything below it (maybe due to 12sp?).. case in in point is if you go here:https://bike.shimano.com/en-EU/components/road.html and hover over the components dropdown and then hover over road, you'll notice the two groupings I describe.. interesting..

[Mark McM]

Originally Posted by vespasianus

But I agree 100%, it is all marketing but also good business. The electronic stuff is most likely cheaper to make and requires less precise machining. And they can charge more for something that is cheaper to make. Brilliant.

Is electrical shifting really cheaper to make? The shifters may be cheaper (microprocessor with radio transmitter, operated by switches), but the derailleurs are more expensive (all the same mechanical parts, plus a motor, gear train, and electronic controller). Electrical cables are probably a bit cheaper than mechanical cables/housings, but then you have to add in the cost of the battery/smart charger. Also, the electrical components all have to be better weatherproofed than mechanical units. I really don't think electrical shifting is much cheaper, if at all. (I think weight was mentioned earlier - this is mostly a wash between electrical and mechanical. Similar quality electrical and mechanical systems are pretty close in weight, and higher quality systems are generally lighter than lower quality systems, regardless of whether each system is electrical or mechanical.)

[benb]

Electrical shifting has to amortize the cost of the software development. That's a big deal.

It's an absolute miracle the computer components have gotten so dirt cheap anyone can even consider all this computerized equipment in shifters and derailleurs.

But they need to find a way to change the software as little as possible and keep it as stable as possible if they want profits. Hardware has gotten cheaper by orders of magnitude over the decades but the software constantly gets more complicated and development never really gets cheaper.

I mean really.. our GPS cyclocomputers are miracles too. We shouldn't take any of this stuff for granted.

Things like diagnostics apps for the electric shifting that run on windows/mac/ios/android do not help the situation as they lose their stable platform since that software has to run and be supported on constantly changing platforms.

[charliedid]

Originally Posted by fourflys

for sure.. I certainly didn't mean to imply anything different.. I think Tiagra is more of the 105 replacement personally.. but I think Sora could be a great "gateway group" as someone is getting into riding and, by the time Sora would wear out, might be ready for a bike upgrade anyway.. I doubt the majority of Sora bikes are ridden as much as the commuter bikes you are describing, but I could be wrong..

I think we are both right

[culler763]

In my opinion the electronic shifting is cheaper to make - and my first gen Ultegra is still working great after 9 years.
No replacement derailleurs!

[culler763]

By the way - prior to getting that bike I was strictly DA - on cross bikes and road bikes. Ultegra Di2 simply performed for me.