Wheel build... what would you do?

[Old School]

Originally Posted by coachboyd

The fact that the elbow is 2.2mm on a Pillar and 2.0 on other spokes

Now I know why my Sapim race MTB have all broken at the elbow.

[November Dave]

Originally Posted by deluz

Why do you say the Park meter is useless for absolute tension measurement? I have sent mine back to Park for calibration at one point. The wheels I have built with it have been fine.
Another possibility is to keep using my Park TM-1 and build myself a calibration fixture. it is fairly easy to do and costs about $100 in parts.
That way I can calibrate it for any spoke at any tension.

The Park Tools are fine for the average DIY builder but we've had about a dozen of them over the years and they rarely agree with each other out of the box. They also struggle to read some spokes at lower tensions. "Useless" in my post should read more like "not as good as a quality dial indicator." We have a calibration jig that we use to keep tension meters in line.

There are lots of products and components and techniques that may be great for any individual DIYer, but the stakes are considerably different in our situation.

[November Dave]

Originally Posted by Old School

Now I know why my Sapim race MTB have all broken at the elbow.

Blame that on insufficient spoke tension.

[deluz]

Originally Posted by November Dave

The Park Tools are fine for the average DIY builder but we've had about a dozen of them over the years and they rarely agree with each other out of the box. They also struggle to read some spokes at lower tensions. "Useless" in my post should read more like "not as good as a quality dial indicator." We have a calibration jig that we use to keep tension meters in line.

There are lots of products and components and techniques that may be great for any individual DIYer, but the stakes are considerably different in our situation.

Good info, thanks

[Mark McM]

Originally Posted by November Dave

One interesting thing I've found with the simple consumer version Park Tool tension meter that maybe Mark or someone else can chime in on. They're fairly useless in the absolute ("what tension is this spoke at") but they are very accurate in determining "is this spoke at the same tension as that one?"

So when I need to find out if the disc side spokes of a front wheel are "about 110kgf" the Sapim dial meter is my primary tool there, but when I hear a tonal difference in two spokes on the drive side of that wheel and want to find out if I need to back the tighter one off 1/8 of a turn and put that 1/8 turn onto the looser one, the Park Tool meter is better at picking that difference up.

Curious - in what way is the Park tool better at picking up small differences? Is it more repeatable, or have higher resolution?

[Mark McM]

Originally Posted by November Dave

Blame that on insufficient spoke tension.

Jobst Brandt would blame it on insufficient stress relieving (and I'd also add possible insufficient bedding of the elbows into the flanges). The relationship to spoke tension is that stress relieving (and elbow bedding) operations are less effective when the tensions are low.

[foo_fighter]

My calibration fixture cost ~$20 in parts(I already had the scale) and yes the TM-1 was way off and out of adjustment range.:

Originally Posted by deluz

Why do you say the Park meter is useless for absolute tension measurement? I have sent mine back to Park for calibration at one point. The wheels I have built with it have been fine.
Another possibility is to keep using my Park TM-1 and build myself a calibration fixture. it is fairly easy to do and costs about $100 in parts.
That way I can calibrate it for any spoke at any tension.

[tellyho]

Originally Posted by foo_fighter

My calibration fixture cost ~$20 in parts(I already had the scale) and yes the TM-1 was way off and out of adjustment range.:

Sweet. There's my winter project.

[deluz]

Originally Posted by foo_fighter

My calibration fixture cost ~$20 in parts(I already had the scale) and yes the TM-1 was way off and out of adjustment range.:

Nice. I was going splurge and use Aluminum 2020 Extrusion which costs $18 for four 300mm pieces. Maybe I could do it for around $50 with the scale.

[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by deluz

What did you not like about the WF tension meter?

I'm not into speed of build AT ALL but I found it not as easy to use as the DT dial one..I felt the same with a Park TS-3 truing stand. Yup, way whizz-bang but just didn't like it. I still use Park Black spoke wrenches, a TS-2..'old dogs, new tricks, type gig.

[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by November Dave

Blame that on insufficient spoke tension.

What he said..either because of a crappy initial build, then ridden or the rim got 'wicked'.

[deluz]

Planning to build my first set of carbon clinchers.
I already have a pair of wheels with White Industries T11 and Reynolds R90 SL.
Looked into using lighter and/or cheaper hubs like Bitex.
But I still wanted to go with another set of T11 despite the cost.
I check on Ebay once in a while but never expected to find anything.
But then these came up on auction $200 for the rear and $100 front brand new. Seemed to good to be true. There were no bids and a make offer option so I offered the starting price and the seller accepted. So with shipping about $350 total. Figured I saved at least $150. So now I am stoked and can order the rims from BTLOS. I have gotten many great deals on Ebay but also sold plenty of stuff at a loss but better to have some cash in my pocket than stuff just lying around.

[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by deluz

Planning to build my first set of carbon clinchers.
I already have a pair of wheels with White Industries T11 and Reynolds R90 SL.
Looked into using lighter and/or cheaper hubs like Bitex.
But I still wanted to go with another set of T11 despite the cost.
I check on Ebay once in a while but never expected to find anything.
But then these came up on auction $200 for the rear and $100 front brand new. Seemed to good to be true. There were no bids and a make offer option so I offered the starting price and the seller accepted. So with shipping about $350 total. Figured I saved at least $150. So now I am stoked and can order the rims from BTLOS. I have gotten many great deals on Ebay but also sold plenty of stuff at a loss but better to have some cash in my pocket than stuff just lying around.

Good find and nice hubs. As a suggestion, when lacing the headin spokes on the lnon drive side...put some tape on the hub shell so you don't scratch the hub shell outboard of LH flange..WI high-low...the RH needs to be a wee bit smaller or the LH a wee bit larger to get the spokes past them, again lacing the 'head in' spokes on NDS.

[robertbb]

Originally Posted by deluz

I already have a pair of wheels with White Industries T11 and Reynolds R90 SL.

*Easton R90 SL

[CampagnoloCOOL]

Get the best quality components within your budget and find a SUPERB wheel builder

Also , re visit that " Budget " a few times and explore expanding that budget , and see if it is worth spending the extra money

Wheelset should be BOMB PROOF 😎💥‼