OT Key Bridge collapse - seems surreal

[prototoast]

Originally Posted by benb

I would wonder if it might be a possibility we do something like create a law that doesn’t allow ships like these in inner harbors. Require a US or EU flag or crew along with the requisite safety regulations if you want access to ports where you could cause a billion dollar disaster. The owners are almost always US or EU based but washed through shell companies and other tricks.

Weird though Singapore has a very strict reputation in some areas.

Original cost of that bridge in today’s dollars was a little over $0.5B but that won’t account for stricter safety and environmental standards today nor the cleanup of this bridge.

My understanding is it's already standard practice for a local harbor pilot to captain a ship while it's in the harbor and docking, but I don't know if they make that transition before or after this bridge, though.

[benb]

Originally Posted by prototoast

My understanding is it's already standard practice for a local harbor pilot to captain a ship while it's in the harbor and docking, but I don't know if they make that transition before or after this bridge, though.

The best pilot in the world has no effect if the boat loses power and/or has an explosion or whatever else they discover happened to this ship. (There were 2 Port of Baltimore pilots on the ship according to the news)

The video is dramatic seeing all the lights on the ship go out and then it starts smoking.

This ship is not even old though, it's relatively new. They are super cavalier about keeping ships going past the normal lifespan even to the point they lose structural integrity. No one can be held responsible if the poor crew pays the price due to all the shell companies and games.

[saab2000]

In my business a few years ago there were a few European airlines which were basically “flag of convenience” airlines. They seem to come and go. There is resistance from US airline unions to this and what happened in Baltimore is why.

As mentioned above, it’ll be hard to hold anyone truly accountable because of the tentacles of ownership and operations being tangled and deliberately opaque.

[JLQ]

Originally Posted by OtayBW

Not sure why, but I found this particular pic to be especially shocking....

Me too. I live near the Chesapeake Bay Bridge and this is the next bridge north. You could see it crossing west on the Bay Bridge. Hard to believe it's gone.

[AngryScientist]

Everyone love's to rag on insurance companies, but they are the one's who will take it in the tail feathers with this one.

[rice rocket]

Originally Posted by AngryScientist

Everyone love's to rag on insurance companies, but they are the one's who will take it in the tail feathers with this one.

Until it hits your rates.

[benb]

Personally I don't ensure any thousand foot cargo ships so not real worried about the rates going up. Maybe it hits our pocketbooks in slightly higher prices on foreign cars or iPhones or something.

There is a bridge in Florida that was destroyed in 1980 in a similar accident and the replacement bridge has protective pylons to try and reduce damage.. it'll be interesting if the replacement in Baltimore gets something like that.

[buddybikes]

Require more tugs in harbors, heard it is the ships job to hire tugs

(note I love tugs, drive by 4 beauties when heading to grocery)

[MikeD]

Makes one wonder if bridges couldn't be better protected against ship collisions.

[rice rocket]

Originally Posted by benb

Personally I don't ensure any thousand foot cargo ships so not real worried about the rates going up. Maybe it hits our pocketbooks in slightly higher prices on foreign cars or iPhones or something.

There is a bridge in Florida that was destroyed in 1980 in a similar accident and the replacement bridge has protective pylons to try and reduce damage.. it'll be interesting if the replacement in Baltimore gets something like that.

You can debate loss ratios, risk pools and exposure ad nauseum, in the end, we pay money in to one of a small handful of companies, when losses go up, guess where the bulk of their revenue comes from? The shareholders won't stand for decreased profits!

[azrider]

Originally Posted by AngryScientist

Yea, that's bad. Having worked in the maritime business and even on a container ship for some time, I can envision a few scenarios that may have led to this tragedy. A worst nightmare for sure. Let's hope for the best for everyone involved.

Woah that's pretty cool you've worked on one of those big boys before. In your opinion, do you think a Tug boat would have been able to prevent something like this? Would a ship that big require two ?

Did a quick google search and saw rates around $3000 an hour for an escort. Small price to pay when you consider alternative.....

[benb]

A ship that big might require a whole bunch of tugs.

But the tugs would provide redundancy. One tug going bad wouldn't send the ship into the bridge.

And the tugs are likely easier to inspect and police for safety and no one is going to fly the cheapest crew possible over from who knows where to pilot the tug.

[reuben]

Originally Posted by AngryScientist

Everyone love's to rag on insurance companies, but they are the one's who will take it in the tail feathers with this one.

Probably a reinsurance company, but yes.

Originally Posted by MikeD

Makes one wonder if bridges couldn't be better protected against ship collisions.

That would be very difficult to do, if not outright impossible. While the velocity (speed) is low, especially in a harbor, a loaded ship like that has a huge mass, making any change in direction a long term proposition. This is true whether it's a container ship, dry bulk carrier, oil tanker, or any similar vessel, especially when loaded. Could tugs have helped? I dunno, it's not an area in which I have any expertise.

The ship reportedly lost power, although a video shows the lights on when it struck the pilings. But who knows when they came back on, or if it was just the deck that had power and not the engines. The maritime track shows the ship sailing quite straight until it veered slightly to starboard just before the collision. The fact that it was moving straight most of the time doesn't necessarily mean that it had power, given its momentum and the minimal wind. But a ship that size with containers stacked on deck is essentially one big sail, so even a small wind could have had an effect. We'll have to wait for the analysis to come out.

Tracker:
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/lXmPCq-o6uQ

Long ago in a career far away, I inspected highways and bridges - new, repair, and annual maintenance inspections. While I don't recall inspecting the Key Bridge, I did inspect the Chesapeake Bay Bridge, the bridges in Beckley WV, and others. The structural engineering is nothing short of amazing when you see how they're built and how they move.

I can also say that when you're danging 700 feet in the air and see hawks soaring below you, looking for breakfast, that you kinda wonder what the heck you're doing there.

Fun facts:

1) The paint on the sleeves that hold the suspension cables of the Chesapeake Bay Bridge have crushed walnuts mixed in (or at least they used to). This improves your chance of walking up and down them without slipping. There are dozens of cables in those sleeves. In the new bridge, each cable is separately anchored inside the four concrete towers which come up to deck level. Redundancy is good.

2) I only inspected the Chesapeake Bay Bridge one year, and the day we went up to the top of the towers above the bridge it was overcast and drizzly, but the guys who had done it for several years said that on a clear day they could see the jets on the runways down at Reagan National Airport in DC.

3) The boats they put in the water below us weren't for safety. They were for body recovery. If I recall correctly, the main bridge decks top out at about 380 feet, so if you jump from there (and people have committed suicide this way) you're highly unlikely to survive the fall. And if you're at the top of the towers, well, you'll have a few more seconds to think about it. At Beckley, there was no such need, as the gorge is quite steep and V shaped, and there's little more than a creek at the bottom if it hasn't been raining much recently

4) The road spans of the bridges in Beckley are about the same height from the bottom of the gorge as the top of the towers of the Chesapeake Bay Bridge - 700+ feet. This is why the annual bungee jumping, hang gliding, etc., are done there.

[yarg]

Originally Posted by MikeD

Makes one wonder if bridges couldn't be better protected against ship collisions.

If you look at the picture OtayBW posted you can see the power line poles are protected. I cannot imagine why pier protection for bridges in maritime environments like this is not mandated. As a civil engineer this just boggles my mind.

[buddybikes]

Originally Posted by benb

A ship that big might require a whole bunch of tugs.

But the tugs would provide redundancy. One tug going bad wouldn't send the ship into the bridge.

And the tugs are likely easier to inspect and police for safety and no one is going to fly the cheapest crew possible over from who knows where to pilot the tug.

We have tugs stationed in port of Providence https://www.mcallistertowing.com/por...tes/providence

Think they will be getting more business...