body camera footage from seminole county arrest of cyclist

[parris]

dddd the perception that we're all seeing with the body cam as well as dash cam footage is different. Yours is that the cyclist attempted to flee, resist arrest, and curse at the LEO.

My perception was that the cyclist did run the stop sign. That much appears to be well established in the video. Where I saw things differently was that the LEO started cuffing the cyclist right from the jump. The cyclist by his body language didn't know *** was going on at first and it was evident that he wasn't processing the events as fast as people that have more living under their belt. When the LEO told both cyclists that they were fleeing etc it was clear in their tone of voice, speed with which they answered, and the answer they gave that neither of them thought the lights and siren were for them. The cyclist that was arrested did curse. But that curse was not at the LEO. I've been in that profession for just under 25 years and KNOW what being cursed at is.

The cyclist's at least initially were respectful from what I saw. The LEO was not being respectful. He could've arrested the cyclist under the same charges but without the drama that we saw unfold on the video if he had actually TALKED to the cyclist so the cyclist had a clear understanding on what he was being accused of and what actions the LEO needed to take.

There's more but like I said we all see different things when watching the same things at times.

[Louis]

Originally Posted by dddd

Let me get this outta the way, Louis, congrat's for trying to make this an ethnic/racial thread or whatever and get another discussion closed.

Oh please. So there was no racial aspect to this arrest?

I'm not "trying" to make it a racial thing - the cop did that when he arrested the cyclist.

[jamesdak]

Originally Posted by parris

dddd the perception that we're all seeing with the body cam as well as dash cam footage is different. Yours is that the cyclist attempted to flee, resist arrest, and curse at the LEO.

My perception was that the cyclist did run the stop sign. That much appears to be well established in the video. Where I saw things differently was that the LEO started cuffing the cyclist right from the jump. The cyclist by his body language didn't know *** was going on at first and it was evident that he wasn't processing the events as fast as people that have more living under their belt. When the LEO told both cyclists that they were fleeing etc it was clear in their tone of voice, speed with which they answered, and the answer they gave that neither of them thought the lights and siren were for them. The cyclist that was arrested did curse. But that curse was not at the LEO. I've been in that profession for just under 25 years and KNOW what being cursed at is.

The cyclist's at least initially were respectful from what I saw. The LEO was not being respectful. He could've arrested the cyclist under the same charges but without the drama that we saw unfold on the video if he had actually TALKED to the cyclist so the cyclist had a clear understanding on what he was being accused of and what actions the LEO needed to take.

There's more but like I said we all see different things when watching the same things at times.

So you truly believe that if you race up, slow down and pull along cyclist with your lights and siren on and your window down looking at them that they won't comprehend that maybe, just maybe your want them to stop? To me that's the second wrong right there. And from then on it's just all excuses and credibility is lost for the cyclist is it not?

[tomato coupe]

Originally Posted by jimcav

...he stops them and then tells the non-white one, almost immediately, essentially "i'm arresting you...

That's not quite accurate. He told the kid he was cuffing him, but didn't arrest him until after the kid resisted getting cuffed. Cuffing someone would be SOP if the cop thought he/she might flee, which the cop clearly thought he had already tried to do. The cop may have overreacted, but he's not entirely wrong.

[jimcav]

Originally Posted by jamesdak

So you truly believe that if you race up, slow down and pull along cyclist with your lights and siren on and your window down looking at them that they won't comprehend that maybe, just maybe your want them to stop? To me that's the second wrong right there. And from then on it's just all excuses and credibility is lost for the cyclist is it not?

What i saw doesn't show much time elapsing from him pulling up alongside and then them stopping and the officer pulling over in front of them? Depending on speed, effort, helmet wind noise, etc, in my riding experience a few to several seconds can elapse before you understand what is going on and stop. I didn't see an egregiously long interval in the video.

I was once pulled over by a cop at 530 am, I did roll a stop, it didn't occur to me he was after me until he got right behind me--he was on a motorcycle. I admitted what i did, and also told him at that time of morning on my way to work, when I saw there was no opposing/crossing traffic I always did. He wrote me a ticket, and then when trying to get back on his bike, it fell over--which goes to your point of where to safely pull over on a road--the shoulder was heavily sloped. I offered to help him get his BMW up, and he glared at me. I took a cell phone picture, and he glared much more, but I said if he hurt his back at least I could offer proof of it being work-related...

[jimcav]

Originally Posted by tomato coupe

That's not quite accurate. He told the kid he was cuffing him, but didn't arrest him until after the kid resisted getting cuffed. Cuffing someone would be SOP if the cop thought he/she might flee, which the cop clearly thought he had already tried to do. The cop may have overreacted, but he's not entirely wrong.

unless that a useful distinction in FL code. The video unfolds in seconds from "putting you in cuffs" to "arresting you" and his tone makes it sound like he is clarifying the kid's continued question of "what are you doing?" I don't think any reasonable test applied to seeing this is going to find it was warranted even if technically ok, and especially since there was completely different outcomes for the 2 riders who did the same exact thing, with no other obvious explanation.

[dustyrider]

I think as long as “police are people some are good, and some are bad,” we’ll have discussions like this one. There’s two groups: those who know the police can _____ you, and those that may one day learn the police can _____ you.
Act accordingly.

[tomato coupe]

Originally Posted by jimcav

unless that a useful distinction in FL code. The video unfolds in seconds from "putting you in cuffs" to "arresting you" and his tone makes it sound like he is clarifying the kid's continued question of "what are you doing?" I don't think any reasonable test applied to seeing this is going to find it was warranted even if technically ok, and especially since there was completely different outcomes for the 2 riders who did the same exact thing, with no other obvious explanation.

The cop tells the kid a couple of times "don't resist me" before he tells him he's arresting him. I'd bet the kid would have been released if he hadn't resisted when getting cuffed.

[dustyrider]

Originally Posted by robt57

Wow, that many? I googled, poorly apparently. Thanks for posting this.

I can tell you, only as of 1/01/2020 @ PDX.

Careful with Colorado. The Governor left it up to local counties and cities. I don’t believe our county has even brought it up...

[parris]

jamesdak what I think is that the cyclists didn't comprehend initially what was going down. You bring up a good point about what the LEO did in catching the cyclists. Why did the LEO put not only the cyclists but also himself and any other road users at risk by driving next to the cyclists for the distance he did? Every police car, suv, and van that I've ever been in has a good loud PA speaker. It's a hell of a lot easier to just grab the mic and tell the cyclists to pull over from behind that way instead of doing it what way he did.

Earlier in my career I was assigned to outside inmate work crews during the summer months. Because of my background I often times got the crew that was assigned to mowing various properties in the county. I've used the pa system on the van regularly to call for breaks and such with inmates ranging out to 200 yds while they're running lawn mowers. The LEO could've easily done this to get the cyclists attention.

[tomato coupe]

Originally Posted by parris

Because of my background I often times got the crew that was assigned to mowing various properties in the county. I've used the pa system on the van regularly to call for breaks and such with inmates ranging out to 200 yds while they're running lawn mowers. The LEO could've easily done this to get the cyclists attention.

Shouting at two cyclists ten feet away isn't really the same as shouting at people 200 yards away running mowers.

[parris]

I don't think this was so much a "cycling while brown" issue as some have brought up. I think the LEO saw the first cyclist blow the stop sign and tunnel visioned on that first cyclist. During the later part of the video the LEO calls the 2nd cyclist over and there was the exchange about weather that cyclist blew the stop. When that cyclist and others said no I/he stopped the LEO didn't arrest him. The simple reason is because the LEO's full attention was on the first cyclist.

I've seen this same type of tunnel vision during training. I've seen recruits so focused on the scenario and threat in front of them that the officer playing an inmate literally walks away without the recruits being aware. We have a fair amount of video that we use in AAR with the classes.

[parris]

tomato my point is that the pa speaker would've been a more effective tool for the LEO to use is all. In the video he's trying to yell out of his truck with lights, siren, and wind noise while working to keep the truck on the road and not clip the cyclists.

[mistermo]

Originally Posted by jamesdak

I guess I watched a different video than most of you. He blew the stop sign, he's wrong, he didn't pull over, he's wrong, he lied and said I didn't hear you, he's wrong, the bike "gang" confronting the cop, they're wrong. All the B.S. being spouted by others most likely escalated the situation. Let me ask you all this. When you are riding on the road and an emergency vehicle comes by with lights and siren on what do you do? I stop and put a foot down no matter what side of the road I'm on since in my mind that's the same as pulling over to let an emergency vehicle through. So....even if he "really" thought the cop was after "the other car" why did they not stop to let him go by? The cop actually seems pretty calm. Maybe, just maybe if everyone had quit trying to make excuses and owed up (You know be accountable for your actions) to being wrong the guy would have ultimately walked. Is this such a hard thing to understand anymore or is everyone so blinded by hatred for the police?

Yes, you watched a different video than I. And your road manners are different than mine, or any group I've ever ridden with. Around these parts, the Saturday morning Rouleurs never stop at stop signs when there aren't cars present. Doubt you do too. When I hear emergency vehicles approaching, I've never once assumed they were coming for me, and by the time I can get stopped, they're past. And, I can't hear verbal commands when sirens are glaring.

Good thing we have body cameras! Why did cop cover his? Why did he turn off sound? Looks to me as if he was hiding things. I'll wager that those who believe we should have a smaller government are the same as those who defend overreach of power by cops.

Pic 1, covering the body cam
Pic 2, spittin' his chew like a good 'ol redneck should
Pic 3, interesting juxtaposition of Old Glory: "Freedom isn't free"
Pic 4, cop who arrested cyclist, begins texting while driving immediately after

[choke]

This video is an excellent example of why a lot of people don't trust police officers these days.