Another bike shop (sad) story

[Velocipede]

Originally Posted by peanutgallery

Curious about the professional courtesy bit? What's that mean and how is one supposed to know? $10 is fair IMHO

Originally Posted by parris

Peanut the way I took Velocipede's comment was that he's in the business but didn't get a discount for the tube.

When I was working as a mechanic years ago we and other shops would sell small parts and such at cost to the other shop or if needed employee for their personal rides. It didn't happen often but it was there.

There were also times when a specialty tool not normally used would happen. There's one shop that's been in the business forever where I grew up and I can remember calling over to see if they had a jig for mounting an obscure model ski binding. They did and let us borrow it. Things like that.

As Parris says, it's very common that shops help other shops out. At least it used to be in this area. I know it is in other areas. But the last 10-15 years, dealers here have stopped helping each other out. I even had a shop want something for free PLUS the retail price of the part. I wasn't expecting it for free obviously. But if someone came to me and needed something I would happily help them out! This industry eats it's young. That's why so many people hate going into or dealing with bike shops. Way too many of them don't actually offer customer service.

This same dealer I got the tube from, I ran out of derailleur housing just before NAHBS 2019. I went to them cause they were close and it was a Sunday. I asked them for 4mm SIS/Derailleur housing. I said it multiple times. The guy repeated it. I left with 5mm. They put it in a bag so I never noticed it till I got back to my office. I went back to the store and they pressured me for the receipt. I was just there 20 minutes earlier. I used my credit card. I left the receipt in my office. They said since I didn't have the receipt I was out of luck.

I don't ask for a discount or anything. Again, professional courtesy is appreciated. But to give me the wrong parts and deny me a return/swap even though I was just there, my purchase could be tracked in their POS system and it was their fault, if I were a normal person not in the bike industry, I would never want to come back there.

[peanutgallery]

I understand that part, but how is someone behind the counter supposed to know that you're in the industry? Special facial hair, t shirt, handshake, tattoo? I also work in the industry and we too exchange tools and proprietary parts, etc. But if I'm out of town and need a tube or a container of sealant, I've accepted the fact that I will have to pay retail

Couple years ago I forgot my super warm ski jacket on a ski trip, when the high for the week was like 0 degrees I had to drop like 500 bucks at the lodge for a new one.
Funny thing, that exact jacket was in stock back at the store. I just paid retail and had a great trip, would have froze otherwise

Can't help you with the receipt or the 5mm housing but I wouldn't get too worked up about paying retail for a tube or other small sundries in a pinch. Get an account or develop a relationship with someone who does. Easy stuff

Originally Posted by Velocipede

As Parris says, it's very common that shops help other shops out. At least it used to be in this area. I know it is in other areas. But the last 10-15 years, dealers here have stopped helping each other out. I even had a shop want something for free PLUS the retail price of the part. I wasn't expecting it for free obviously. But if someone came to me and needed something I would happily help them out! This industry eats it's young. That's why so many people hate going into or dealing with bike shops. Way too many of them don't actually offer customer service.

This same dealer I got the tube from, I ran out of derailleur housing just before NAHBS 2019. I went to them cause they were close and it was a Sunday. I asked them for 4mm SIS/Derailleur housing. I said it multiple times. The guy repeated it. I left with 5mm. They put it in a bag so I never noticed it till I got back to my office. I went back to the store and they pressured me for the receipt. I was just there 20 minutes earlier. I used my credit card. I left the receipt in my office. They said since I didn't have the receipt I was out of luck.

I don't ask for a discount or anything. Again, professional courtesy is appreciated. But to give me the wrong parts and deny me a return/swap even though I was just there, my purchase could be tracked in their POS system and it was their fault, if I were a normal person not in the bike industry, I would never want to come back there.

[merckx]

Originally Posted by Ti Designs

I'm not so sure. The bike industry marches forward, always demanding better equipment than was available last year. Since I switched to 9-speed they have come out with 10-speed, 11-speed and now 12-speed. With each change everything gets more expensive and wears quicker. Think about this: 5/6 speed Campagnolo Nuovo Record was made from 1967 to 1982 - that's 22 full seasons where nothing changed. Now a generation for equipment is 2 years. With each change comes greater demand on supporting parts like cables. I still run 9-speed, I can use $5 cables if I want to, they'll work just fine. Try that same cable with 11-speed and things don't work as well.

If people demand unrealistic performance (from parts that have very little to do with performance) than they should also expect unrealistic prices.

I don't disagree with what you have written, and of course I was being flippant with my remark. Another paradigm shift has been the incessant flood of inexpensive consumables into the market. It has changed our expectation about what we are willing to pay for goods. The internet has also certainly exacerbated this expectation. We now scour the net to locate the least expensive cost for the items we want. Then when we saunter into a brick and mortar, we stutter-step when faced with item costs that are not congruent with the same items found on the net.

[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by P K

Just keeps getting harder and harder for the LBS. I would guess we're heading towards two business models in the future. A corporate owned "showroom" that has a connection to their brands website (a place to pick up your online purchase) and then the "little guy" who is a service only shop.

Sounds like....wait for it, car dealers and car repair places. My biz plan when I started Vecchio's, originally service only...5-6 car dealers in the republic and 35 or so car repair places.
I think there will be a third tho..a 'boutque', the place where you go, get a glass of wine, sit in a living room, with Vids, talk about your next $15,000 BICYCLE..Kinda like walking into the Ferrari dealer or the....Tesla(?) dealer??

One guy even tried to charge me $15 for "removing and reinstalling cassette" after replacing a broken spoke....

$15 total? That's way reasonable..if that's the total..

[Velocipede]

Originally Posted by peanutgallery

I understand that part, but how is someone behind the counter supposed to know that you're in the industry? Special facial hair, t shirt, handshake, tattoo? I also work in the industry and we too exchange tools and proprietary parts, etc. But if I'm out of town and need a tube or a container of sealant, I've accepted the fact that I will have to pay retail

Couple years ago I forgot my super warm ski jacket on a ski trip, when the high for the week was like 0 degrees I had to drop like 500 bucks at the lodge for a new one.
Funny thing, that exact jacket was in stock back at the store. I just paid retail and had a great trip, would have froze otherwise

Can't help you with the receipt or the 5mm housing but I wouldn't get too worked up about paying retail for a tube or other small sundries in a pinch. Get an account or develop a relationship with someone who does. Easy stuff

My comments are regarding a specific shop I've been to a couple times when desperate and can't wait for something. They know who I am and what I do. I've mentioned they saw me on bike rumor or PEZ or whatever. I've been on video and in pictures over the years for the bikes and shows. So it'm not a stranger. And it's always the same guys there. There are a couple shops in the area who are cool with helping fellow industry people. But it's growing very small in my area at least.

I am not opposed to paying retail when I need to. I've done it many many times. I've been offered EP or Bro Deals with companies and not taken them. And I have accounts with everyone. Again, I would order things and wait if it weren't a critical thing like the housing for a NAHBS bike. That was on a Sunday and I was leaving the next day for Sacramento. I couldn't wait. I thought I had more in the box but nope. My fault.

I'm not worked up about paying retail. My comment about the $10 for a tube was it was expensive for a basic PV tube. I've seen shops charge much less for them. Unless they are lightweight or whatnot, usually tubes aren't $10. That's my comment. About shops gouging consumers and why many consumers go elsewhere.

[Velocipede]

Originally Posted by oldpotatoe

Sounds like....wait for it, car dealers and car repair places. My biz plan when I started Vecchio's, originally service only...5-6 car dealers in the republic and 35 or so car repair places.
I think there will be a third tho..a 'boutque', the place where you go, get a glass of wine, sit in a living room, with Vids, talk about your next $15,000 BICYCLE..Kinda like walking into the Ferrari dealer or the....Tesla(?) dealer??


$15 total? That's way reasonable..if that's the total..

$15 is reasonable. Shops here charge $20. And it's not like we are high rent or anything like Boulder.

[prototoast]

Originally Posted by oldpotatoe

$15 total? That's way reasonable..if that's the total..

I think the issue is that he was quoted a price for fixing a broken spoke, and he reasonably assumed that the price would cover the whole repair. It's a communication issue, more than a pricing issue.

[Velocipede]

Originally Posted by prototoast

I think the issue is that he was quoted a price for fixing a broken spoke, and he reasonably assumed that the price would cover the whole repair. It's a communication issue, more than a pricing issue.

When I had a shop, I would not charge to remove the cassette when fixing a broken spoke. I would just charge for the true and spoke. If the Poster was confused due to the additional cost, I would be a bit also given you need to pull the cassette to replace a spoke. Just like many times you need to pull a disc rotor when replacing one. If the shop wants to charge more, do so. But explain why there are different prices. Things need to be more clearly spelled out now.

[fa63]

I am guilty of having forgotten to include the fee to remove/reinstall cassette when checking in a customer for a spoke replacement. Either me or another employee would inevitably realize the mistake, and call the customer to let them know. If you tell them when they come to the shop to pick up, it is too late.

Originally Posted by Velocipede

When I had a shop, I would not charge to remove the cassette when fixing a broken spoke. I would just charge for the true and spoke. If the Poster was confused due to the additional cost, I would be a bit also given you need to pull the cassette to replace a spoke. Just like many times you need to pull a disc rotor when replacing one. If the shop wants to charge more, do so. But explain why there are different prices. Things need to be more clearly spelled out now.

[cash05458]

The never ending LBS vs internet stuff really...I totally get the need to support a LBS...needed and great stuff on lots of levels...I think the problem is when it gets to price gouging in a big way...I do my own wrenching out of necessity but still, when I am "downtown" at our best local place, I tend to see if I can pick something up there to support etc...a few years ago I needed a new Conti 4000...so while downtown I stopped in ...they wanted 95 bucks plus tax for a single tire...so about 100 bucks! ...I could go online and buy three of them for that price...which of course I did. If supporting a local LBS means spending 300 percent more for an item, I am out and would assume most even semi into cycling the way we are would be as well...this ain't a welfare program after all and if you feel totally gouged, of course you aren't feeling so kindly about paying more to keep their business open...I mean, there needs to be a balance between what is good and reasonable via different factors and outright robbery...

[ltwtsculler91]

Originally Posted by cash05458

The never ending LBS vs internet stuff really...I totally get the need to support a LBS...needed and great stuff on lots of levels...I think the problem is when it gets to price gouging in a big way...I do my own wrenching out of necessity but still, when I am "downtown" at our best local place, I tend to see if I can pick something up there to support etc...a few years ago I needed a new Conti 4000...so while downtown I stopped in ...they wanted 95 bucks plus tax for a single tire...so about 100 bucks! ...I could go online and buy three of them for that price...which of course I did. If supporting a local LBS means spending 300 percent more for an item, I am out and would assume most even semi into cycling the way we are would be as well...this ain't a welfare program after all and if you feel totally gouged, of course you aren't feeling so kindly about paying more to keep their business open...I mean, there needs to be a balance between what is good and reasonable via different factors and outright robbery...

The problem on a lot of these items isn't gouging, its the fact that you can buy Conti tires on line for like $1 more than it costs the shop to buy them from distributors...

[Velocipede]

Originally Posted by ltwtsculler91

The problem on a lot of these items isn't gouging, its the fact that you can buy Conti tires on line for like $1 more than it costs the shop to buy them from distributors...

This is the real issue. And Conti is horrible for it. They always claim to stop this practice but it never ends. Many stores only sell them by special order. They might have 1 pair in vs in the past they'd have 6 pair in. I hear about it all the time on our industry websites. The same thing goes for Shimano, SRAM and Campagnolo.

[cash05458]

not to argue the point...but ok, so I can buy same conti tire for a buck more than what it costs them down at said shop...so lets say 35 bucks...the problem here is they are still selling that same 34 dollar tire for 95 bucks...you get my drift? I might be fine with supporting the good they do by paying , say, 20 bucks more. But 3 times the amount? That's a competitive retail plan? I understand cost and overhead and providing a service that is important to getting folks on bikes and all...but let's be grownups...that plan just isn't going to work with most folks. I can't think of many retail areas at all that something like that would float...

[Velocipede]

Originally Posted by cash05458

not to argue the point...but ok, so I can buy same conti tire for a buck more than what it costs them down at said shop...so lets say 35 bucks...the problem here is they are still selling that same 34 dollar tire for 95 bucks...you get my drift? That's a competitive retail plan? I understand cost and overhead and providing a service that is important to getting folks on bikes and all...but let's be grownups...that plan just isn't going to work with most folks. I can't think of many retail areas at all that something like that would float...

It's not always a competitive retail plan issue. Dealers are being pushed into signing MAP agreements as well as online sales agreements. If they don't they are not allowed to purchase those items. And sadly shops are being policed more than online retailers like Amazon. Also some companies are selling to Amazon but complaining when bike shops do it. I had to deal with that at Lezyne. It's a very wild retail environment now.

[weisan]