OT: Electric Hummer

[pasadena]

Originally Posted by Ozz

You can get a used Tesla S for less than $45k (2015 - 26,800 miles - $43,900) and found one for less than $25k (2013 - 124,800 - $24,990)

I have no idea how long electric motors last, and what the mileage equivalent would be on a ICE vehicle. My impression is that they last a long time...

tires, suspension, etc would probably be same as regular car

There is no assumption or guarantee on any used car.
Even through Tesla, you pay top dollar for a used one, and they don't really check them over. But, at least you will have a warranty.

Be aware that Tesla has been pulling features like auto-pilot out of used cars even though you bought it that way.

Say you buy a used Tesla 2nd hand, it has Ludicrious Speed and Autopilot. You bring it in to Tesla to repair something. They update the software and without telling you, remove those features claiming you didn't pay for them.
that's $8000 of your car gone.

Tires, suspension, brakes will have more frequent service intervals. They are heavy vehicles.
brakes, more so because of non-use, they tend to rot unless you're in a climate like socal.

If you'e willing to roll the dice, and willing to either pay and wait for Tesla service or find a 3rd party mechanic that knows what they are doing, Model S might be a good deal.

They are cool cars. The Model 3 is supposed to be a better car. I have a couple friends with the 3, and it's nice.
The S is great, bit wide in the city, but nice as well.
The 3 new is probably the best choice, since at the moment, used 3's are not much less, and from all accounts, is a better vehicle all around than the S (unless you need the size)

As Mark McM said, many are willing to make their life fit the vehicle because they want a Tesla.
Most people want a product that fits their lifestyle, and may become unhappy with all the hidden caveats.

[Ozz]

Originally Posted by pasadena

There is no assumption or guarantee on any used car.....

All good points....I was mainly responding to a previous point that EVs are too expensive....I get that all bets are off with a used car...but you can get one for under $40k

For my wife I thinking more along the lines of a new Audi eTron....current one is too big for what she needs...would rather have one more the size of the Q5.

[benb]

Originally Posted by pasadena

The major manufacturers haven't taken EV's seriously, except to develop technology.

That will change with VAG going all in w over 66 billion euros invested in EV's and their own batteries below $100/kwh. That's below what Tesla can do, and is very important in making affordable, mainstream EV's.
They will have a full range of EV's within 10 yrs.

The major manufacturers haven't even done this.. most of the cars are just bolt togethers from off the shelf EV components from 3rd party suppliers.

Teslas the only one that's gotten it on integration. They make almost everything important themselves. Batteries, motors (there motors are smaller/lighter/more efficient), controllers, etc..

It's good that VAG is going to invest in their own batteries but they'll be a decade behind by the time they ship a car with their own batteries so it's a bit pie in the sky to think they'll actually come out of the gate ahead of Tesla and others. And It's VAG, so I'll believe it when I see it.

[cmg]

What's inside a Tesla motor? Now you know. https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q...tail&FORM=VIRE no oil changes, brushless, only thing to replace is the bearings?

[pasadena]

66 billion euros on batteries, giga factory and infrastructure to build cars. along with partners.
The new ID series EV's will start rolling out next year.

It's not Tesla vs. everyone else. That's a consumer mentality.

In business, they will all work together in some respect, and they will all benefit from it.
EV is too small and still developing technology to be playing us vs. them games.

Originally Posted by benb

The major manufacturers haven't even done this.. most of the cars are just bolt togethers from off the shelf EV components from 3rd party suppliers.

Teslas the only one that's gotten it on integration. They make almost everything important themselves. Batteries, motors (there motors are smaller/lighter/more efficient), controllers, etc..

It's good that VAG is going to invest in their own batteries but they'll be a decade behind by the time they ship a car with their own batteries so it's a bit pie in the sky to think they'll actually come out of the gate ahead of Tesla and others. And It's VAG, so I'll believe it when I see it.

[josephr]

Originally Posted by pasadena

66 billion euros on batteries, giga factory and infrastructure to build cars. along with partners.
The new ID series EV's will start rolling out next year.

It's not Tesla vs. everyone else. That's a consumer mentality.

In business, they will all work together in some respect, and they will all benefit from it.
EV is too small and still developing technology to be playing us vs. them games.

You need updated information....Tesla is way ahead of the competition in terms of manufacturing and vehicle design. Except for the Leaf and the Bolt, any other EV being made out there to compete with Tesla is an adapted body of an ICE vehicle.

Other advantages:
-Tesla's vehicle management system is self-built proprietary system. Everyone else partners with Bosch, Mitsubishi, Panasonic, LG, Fuji, TIS, Magna, ZF, Aisin.......and the list goes on forever. And all of these systems have to be integrated into the vehicle's main computer. VW just announced a few months ago they were investing into building their own system to work across their entire spectrum.

-Tesla owns their entire battery and motor systems----all the way from R&D to manufacture. GM and everyone else are reliant on battery/motor systems from LG (in the case of GM,others) and Nissan sold its battery division a couple of years ago to a company called AESC.

-What's been the holdup on the Model Y has been the use of a robotics system which 'prints' the vehicle's electric harness onto the body/frame of the car. I'm not 100% on this, but this system was proven long before expected and thus able to start manufacture sooner on the Y.

Tesla is what happens when bureaucratic business models become bloated, lazy, and unable to entertain new ways of thinking.

[Louis]

Originally Posted by josephr

You need updated information....Tesla is way ahead of the competition in terms of manufacturing and vehicle design.

The Model S is pretty cool, the Model 3 is so-so, but IMO the X and the Y are about as plain as a loaf of bread.

[smontanaro]

Originally Posted by pasadena

66 billion euros on batteries, giga factory and infrastructure to build cars. along with partners.
The new ID series EV's will start rolling out next year.

It's not Tesla vs. everyone else. That's a consumer mentality.

In business, they will all work together in some respect, and they will all benefit from it.
EV is too small and still developing technology to be playing us vs. them games.

Didn't Tesla effectively open source a ton of patents at one point? Ah, yes, here it is:

https://www.tesla.com/blog/all-our-p...are-belong-you

[saab2000]

My Tesla stock is doing well. Not selling. It will either go bust or go crazy high I think.

Everything I read and watch indicates that Tesla is far ahead in terms of AI, driving data collection, battery technology and on schedule with their long-term goals.

[josephr]

Originally Posted by Louis

The Model S is pretty cool, the Model 3 is so-so, but IMO the X and the Y are about as plain as a loaf of bread.

aesthetically speaking...you're right...I'm really speaking towards the design in terms of manufacturability and systems integration. From that perspective, they're at least 5-7 years ahead of anybody else.

[smontanaro]

Originally Posted by josephr

aesthetically speaking...you're right...I'm really speaking towards the design in terms of manufacturability and systems integration. From that perspective, they're at least 5-7 years ahead of anybody else.

Even just in terms of aesthetics, I think the Tesla 3 looks pretty good (less so the Model S). There's a good reason that cars like Tesla and Prius need to be distinctive. They do need to stand out. While I never liked the Prius styling, I'm sure it worked to Toyota's advantage. I think the space has changed now, but early on, the Prius dramatically outsold Corolla and Camry hybrids. The Prius said, "Hey, I care about the environment." Neither the Corolla nor Camry hybrids were obvious in that regard.

The same goes for Tesla. I live in Chicago's North Shore (Evanston). Especially in the wealthier suburbs further north (Wilmette, Winnetka, Glencoe, Highland Park) Teslas are everywhere. There's even a Tesla store in Highland Park. Five years ago I think the standard car was some flavor of Volvo SUV. I think there is very much a "keeping up with the Joneses" aspect to these trends. For that, visual distinction matters a great deal. This Grist article from a couple days ago reminded me of that:

https://grist.org/climate/could-fomo...p-save-us-all/

These same social forces can also be harnessed to take on climate change, as individual decisions gather strength. “Flight shame” has recently taken off in Europe, reviving rail travel as people opt to take fewer flights. In the United States, the meatless Impossible Burger has surged in popularity, making its way to Burger Kings everywhere. The transportation industry is also susceptible to peer pressure, Frank writes in his book, and lucky us: Bike-share services and electric cars are on the rise.

[Elefantino]

VW is coming. Not soon enough, and it's not bringing the new iD.3 to the US market (yet), but it's coming. And its deal with Ford is big. The first real challenge to Tesla.

I'd buy an iD.3 in a minute. Particularly the GTE version, which reportedly has a 342-mile range.

[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by Elefantino

VW is coming. Not soon enough, and it's not bringing the new iD.3 to the US market (yet), but it's coming. And its deal with Ford is big. The first real challenge to Tesla.

I'd buy an iD.3 in a minute. Particularly the GTE version, which reportedly has a 342-mile range.

US version is supposedly a 'ID CROZZ'..and $45k..ouch...

https://www.caranddriver.com/volkswagen/id-crozz

[Elefantino]

Originally Posted by oldpotatoe

US version is supposedly a 'ID CROZZ'..and $45k..ouch...

https://www.caranddriver.com/volkswagen/id-crozz

That's the iD.4, the first one we'll get, followed closely by the Microbus at ... gulp! ... $70k. Double ouch.

They'll bring the iD.3 here eventually.

[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by Elefantino

That's the iD.4, the first one we'll get, followed closely by the Microbus at ... gulp! ... $70k. Double ouch.

They'll bring the iD.3 here eventually.

Yup, glad I'm probably on my last car...