Chris King Hub Play

[11.4]

People love them or hate them. Most love them. Some hate them for the noise, but that's abated a lot on the R45's compared to the Classics. I've used and built many wheels on pretty much all the road hubs out there, and I've had problems at one time or another with almost all of them. Hubs are harder to make than you might think. Just ask Zipp, who has never gotten it right. If you want hubs that work and never need particular attention, I'd just refer you to Dura Ace or Campagnolo Record. Every hub is designed with a different strength in mind, whether bracing angle, freehub durability, weight, or whatever, and every design thus makes compromises elsewhere. Show me the perfect hub and I'll show you the hub that doesn't get ridden.

[AngryScientist]

Drew - you can stop by sometime if you like, i'm sure i can get 'em humming along just fine.

i like CK hubs. i do agree that their design for a better mousetrap is a little (a lot) more complicated than it needs to be, but they do work and are relatively maintenance free for the most part.

there are a bunch of good ones out there, but in my opinion, at the moment, i think DT swiss does it right. simple replaceable sealed bearings, tool free disassembly to get to the brilliant star ratchets. lube with some good hypoid gear oil once in a while and you've got hubs that will last and last.

no cool colors though...

[11.4]

Originally Posted by AngryScientist

... at the moment, i think DT swiss does it right. simple replaceable sealed bearings, tool free disassembly to get to the brilliant star ratchets. lube with some good hypoid gear oil once in a while and you've got hubs that will last and last.

no cool colors though...

Wheel geometry isn't as good as on an R45, I believe.

And I find shops love DT because of how they treat dealers and because the same wheel can be converted easily between Campy and Shimano, simplifying inventory. And maintenance and repair are fast and inexpensive.

Again, it's all tradeoffs. There are few or no hubs out there that are simply bad. As informed buyers of very expensive hubs, we need to be clear about our priorities when we choose.

[Nooch]

Originally Posted by AngryScientist

Drew - you can stop by sometime if you like, i'm sure i can get 'em humming along just fine.

i like CK hubs. i do agree that their design for a better mousetrap is a little (a lot) more complicated than it needs to be, but they do work and are relatively maintenance free for the most part.

there are a bunch of good ones out there, but in my opinion, at the moment, i think DT swiss does it right. simple replaceable sealed bearings, tool free disassembly to get to the brilliant star ratchets. lube with some good hypoid gear oil once in a while and you've got hubs that will last and last.

no cool colors though...

I should give you the wheel for a while so you can adjust and test it, lol.

[BdaGhisallo]

Originally Posted by 11.4

Wheel geometry isn't as good as on an R45, I believe.

And I find shops love DT because of how they treat dealers and because the same wheel can be converted easily between Campy and Shimano, simplifying inventory. And maintenance and repair are fast and inexpensive.

Again, it's all tradeoffs. There are few or no hubs out there that are simply bad. As informed buyers of very expensive hubs, we need to be clear about our priorities when we choose.

Is that still the case though? I know DT's flange geo on the 10sp hub was a good bit worse than other hubs but with the move to 11sp, I thought that had almost been eliminated as a concern.

Fairwheel Bikes, in their most recent hub review, list the 240s, the White T11 and the King R45 as having a center to right flange distance of 17mm. DT's center to left flange of 33mm is a little lower than the R45 at 34mm and the T11 at 36mm. A wider based triangle is better but I have been under the impression that the center to right flange number is the crucial one.

[Nooch]

So, my never ending saga with these hubs (because I'm inept, obviously...)

I loosed the two sides of the hub with the 5mm allen. Put on the cone adjustment tool, brought it clockwise, locked the 5mm allens back. Put wheel in frame, spun, seemed okay but freehub was catching a little. Did the same, backed the cone adjustment tool a touch, put it back in, freehub didn't catch, alright cool.

Took the moots out for it's shakedown ride today and felt 1, like I was working way too hard, 2, that as soon as I let off the pedals I was slowing down a fair, noticeable amount. Now, if I back the cone adjustment back a bit, I'm afraid I'll end up with the lateral play (lateral play to the point that when the hubs spin really well, I can take the rim at the tire and move it about 1-2mm back and forth)... Do I need to tear this thing all the way down? (I have the tool, but no experience using it.. that's what she said...)

[bshell]

which model of hub?

[Nooch]

Originally Posted by bshell

which model of hub?

It's a chris king classic, shimano, 32h.

[FlashUNC]

I'd just get different hubs. That was generally my experience with the R45s. Finicky, temperamental with no other real advantages over, say, DT Swiss.

[bshell]

Just making sure we weren't talking about the fairly common problem w/ the R45 Campagnolo fhub aluminum body.

Your situation is unfortunate as those tend to be super reliable

I have some Classic/Shimano fhubs going on 20 years now w/o problem so I hope you get it sorted out.

[11.4]

Originally Posted by Nooch

So, my never ending saga with these hubs (because I'm inept, obviously...)

I loosed the two sides of the hub with the 5mm allen. Put on the cone adjustment tool, brought it clockwise, locked the 5mm allens back. Put wheel in frame, spun, seemed okay but freehub was catching a little. Did the same, backed the cone adjustment tool a touch, put it back in, freehub didn't catch, alright cool.

Took the moots out for it's shakedown ride today and felt 1, like I was working way too hard, 2, that as soon as I let off the pedals I was slowing down a fair, noticeable amount. Now, if I back the cone adjustment back a bit, I'm afraid I'll end up with the lateral play (lateral play to the point that when the hubs spin really well, I can take the rim at the tire and move it about 1-2mm back and forth)... Do I need to tear this thing all the way down? (I have the tool, but no experience using it.. that's what she said...)

If you can turn the axle on the hub in your hand and it's smooth, it's not too tight. One isn't going to be able to feel a slightly tight hub as requiring noticeably higher wattage or slowing you down faster -- it's just not that big a contributor unless it's just plain frozen. I'd say those symptoms are subjective and have to be in your head, not in the hub per se.

The adjustment on Chris King hubs is precise and you may have to try a couple times and test ride it. Definitely don't want it loose so there's any rocking in the hub, but there's not a big range of adjustment where it's ok either. If you've adjusted a few, you just get a feel for how to find that spot quickly.

King hubs do NOT just spin easily, like free bearing hubs lubricated with oil. Properly adjusted they feel a bit tight, but when you get on the bike and load them, they rotate smoothly and with little friction. I suspect you have them adjusted just fine.

[Nooch]

Originally Posted by 11.4

If you can turn the axle on the hub in your hand and it's smooth, it's not too tight. One isn't going to be able to feel a slightly tight hub as requiring noticeably higher wattage or slowing you down faster -- it's just not that big a contributor unless it's just plain frozen. I'd say those symptoms are subjective and have to be in your head, not in the hub per se.

The adjustment on Chris King hubs is precise and you may have to try a couple times and test ride it. Definitely don't want it loose so there's any rocking in the hub, but there's not a big range of adjustment where it's ok either. If you've adjusted a few, you just get a feel for how to find that spot quickly.

King hubs do NOT just spin easily, like free bearing hubs lubricated with oil. Properly adjusted they feel a bit tight, but when you get on the bike and load them, they rotate smoothly and with little friction. I suspect you have them adjusted just fine.

Interesting -- and fair -- perhaps just fatigue from staying up so late to finish the bike, and maybe I need to take a closer look at the brakes for resistance.. I can tell you I was riding considerably slower than normal with more effort, so perhaps something is awry somewhere else..

I also don't know the last time these hubs were lubricated. For whatever reason I recall the buzz being louder and higher pitched than it was today -- but again -- perhaps this is all in my frickin head... many things tend to be.

[11.4]

Originally Posted by Nooch

Interesting -- and fair -- perhaps just fatigue from staying up so late to finish the bike, and maybe I need to take a closer look at the brakes for resistance.. I can tell you I was riding considerably slower than normal with more effort, so perhaps something is awry somewhere else..

I also don't know the last time these hubs were lubricated. For whatever reason I recall the buzz being louder and higher pitched than it was today -- but again -- perhaps this is all in my frickin head... many things tend to be.

I think you got the adjustment right -- a good job, and you might just be expecting too much from the bearings in the King design.