OT: German Shepherd dogs

[GScot]

Originally Posted by colker

GSD will have more than one alpha human.. you can transfer the alpha role to another family member. They are one of the few breeds w/ this quality. They are unbelievably smart and like to "listen" to people.

Yes indeed. The GSD I posted about earlier was Mom's dog. I was off to college when she joined the family but home for summers and enough to get her working for me with the hunting dog. Mom trained her well and I had no problem getting her to behave. She took cues from my Shorthair on what to do in the field. For not being a hunting dog she was a hell of a good helper along with a real hunting dog. If only the birddog had been as willing to please she would have been a better helper, tended to forget she was hunting for a team and ranged too far.

[RFC]

I am a long time dog owner and dog lover. All day, I've been trying to stay out of this conversation because dog ownership is a very personal thing with many different experiences. No offense to anyone.

Yes, the quality of care is central. All dogs need to be socialized and bad owners are the cause of many problems.

I have always liked GS. My grandfather bred and raised them, including an ancestor of Rin Tin Tin.

When it was time to get a dog for my sons, we looked long and hard at GS. My research was an eye opener. Visiting a litter of puppies and we see dad penned in back because he is likely to kill the pups or us is not a good sign.

Right or wrong, I concluded that GS presented a higher than average probability of being crazy or crippled. Bad breeding. Personally, I think it is a crime that GS breeders breed for the sloped back, which is a formula for further health problems.

Then I found the winning alternative. An Israeli Canaan Dog. The original genotype of dog. A couple steps away from wolves. All of the smarts, sensory capacity, and pack instinct of wolves. Yes, he had to be socialized, and that I did, including Saturdays among hundreds of people at the soccer field. As a result, he was very tolerant and playful with young children and small dogs.

He was incredible, gentle and diligent. His vocalizations told me whether the person at the door was a friend (member of the pack) or a stranger.

When I go to heaven (metaphor) I hope he is the first I meet. I will know his voice.

I have his photos on another computer. He looked very much like this:

http://myrnash0.tripod.com/shaarhagai-canaandogs/

[54ny77]

This. Many dogs don't deserve their stupid owners.

I've known GS's in the hands of both sides of spectrum (good and bad owners). One was a neighbors' GS, advanced K9 trained, a most lovable (and beloved by all) dog, loyal and obedient and I knew her since she was a pup. Growing up around big dogs (akitas) I always approached her as the alpha, but playfully (and she knew I always had treats, which helped!). That said, most certainly don't mess with trying to break in the home or harm the owners (or the other house dog, an Australian sheep dog), that would be a fatal mistake.

The other, another neighbors' dog from years prior, was a train wreck. Entirely the stupid owners' fault. They never exercised it (in several years, not once did I ever see them take the dog out for a walk, literally), left it cooped up in way too small house and yard, it was just plain animal abuse. As a result it was very, very poorly behaved. Terrorized the other neighbors, many of whom had small kids running around in the cul de sac. Couple of times it chewed/clawed through the screen and wanted to get out and attack, thank goodness couldn't get through the window which must have had a stopper in place if half opened. I had to put in subsonic dog "alarms" in the yard and always carried a piercing subsonic whistle whenever walking by the house to keep it at bay. Cujo is a name best described for that dog. And sadly, it was not the dogs' fault. That's 100% on the jackass owners who didn't deserve owning such an incredible breed. After one bad incident I called animal control and ripped into the owners for animal abuse. Needless to say, we didn't exchange holiday cards...and they eventually moved.

Owning a dog is a massive responsibility, regardless of breed.

Originally Posted by eippo1

Any dog is scary in the hands of bad owners.

[glepore]

Originally Posted by RFC

Right or wrong, I concluded that GS presented a higher than average probability of being crazy or crippled. Bad breeding. Personally, I think it is a crime that GS breeders breed for the sloped back, which is a formula for further health problems.
http://myrnash0.tripod.com/shaarhagai-canaandogs/

Yes. You should avoid kennels that breed gs for show. And because of their intelligence, they are indeed a train wreck if mishandled.

[skiezo]

My experience with GSD is mainly from the time I spent in the Army Rangers.
We were working with the Bosnian Special Forces and they had a pair that would always be on patrol with us in Serbia. The one was the most incredible dog I have ever seen. It knew about 40 hand signals and over 300 voice commands. Saved our butts more times than I can count.
My lifelong friend has a police dog reject that is one of the most well behaved dogs that I have come across. Loyal,obediant,wary of strangers but a snuggler and friend.
I think that it comes down to the dogs bloodlines as an inferior line will produce inferior offspring.
If I was going to get a companion dog for what you describe I would choose either a european bloodline German shorthair pointer or a Setter. Both of these breeds love to run and can go the distance and are great family companions.

[buddybikes]

>>european bloodline German shorthair pointer or a Setter

Yes! Setter's are beatiful, haven't seen one in some time.

[mcteague]

Originally Posted by GonaSovereign

FWIW, shepherds shed once per year...for 365 days. Sometimes the shedding gets crazy (like now). Their double coat is the stuff of legend. You will destroy vacuums. Birds love the stuff for nests though.

I had 3 Siberian Huskies before my Belgian Sheepdog so I thought I had a handle on the shedding thing. Well...nope! Kodi sheds more than the Huskies. It's not just the undercoat, the Belgian constantly sheds really long black topcoat hairs. When I finish vacuuming I have to sit down and pull all those long hairs out from around the vac's beater bar. And, don't get me started on the drooling! Still, there are the more tangible benefits of dog ownership.


Tim

[colker]

Originally Posted by glepore

Yes. You should avoid kennels that breed gs for show. And because of their intelligence, they are indeed a train wreck if mishandled.

GSD competition is different from every other breed. They are judged on looks but also on how fast they obey and most of all: how far they control impulse.
The most prized GSD is the one that stops whenever called by the handler even when launching an attack. Even when biting a GSD must stop and recede when ordered. Few dogs can do it. Those that do are selected as best breeders. Judges fire a pistol and the dogs should stay calm and controlled when hearing the gunshot.No other breed is judged by these parameters. There are three qualities of GSD based on the selection: pink, blue and gray. All pure breed but colors tell you how far the parents of the puppies went ahead in testing impulse.
In your daily routine this control translates as obedience, ease of training, total dedication to the family. GSD is a sophisticated, sensitive animal and as many said it should be treated w/ respect. These dogs have a "presence" like no other. They impose themselves without trying. You feel safe w/ a GSD. I live in a somewhat rough part of town. I used to walk around at night w/ my two girls and no one would even think of bothering me.
A GSD is not a dog to be let off theleash. No dog should but big dogs even less so. Dogs are fast and things happen quickly: it´s usually a beef w/ another dog. If you decide to get one you must chose a kennel that focus on the type of individual you want. Tell the Kennel what you are after. Kennel ownwers love their puppies and want them to succeed in their new homes. A kennel owner will chose an alpha dog for security work and a mellow individual to live among children.
I love all dogs. Hunting dogs are pure love and beauty. Terriers are friends forever. GSDs are on a different level: they are serious, sensitive, quick learnrs and assume responsabilities. I find them the easiest to train. It does not take a lot of expertise. They want to please. it´s a dog you can depend on. I recommend females over males. All trainers i meet have females since they learn so much faster than males.

[colker]

Originally Posted by skiezo

My experience with GSD is mainly from the time I spent in the Army Rangers.
We were working with the Bosnian Special Forces and they had a pair that would always be on patrol with us in Serbia. The one was the most incredible dog I have ever seen. It knew about 40 hand signals and over 300 voice commands. Saved our butts more times than I can count.
My lifelong friend has a police dog reject that is one of the most well behaved dogs that I have come across. Loyal,obediant,wary of strangers but a snuggler and friend.
I think that it comes down to the dogs bloodlines as an inferior line will produce inferior offspring.
If I was going to get a companion dog for what you describe I would choose either a european bloodline German shorthair pointer or a Setter. Both of these breeds love to run and can go the distance and are great family companions.

There are great GSD breeders in Eastern europe. Also in Italy and Argentina. Curiously the US does not have a tradition of GSD breeding.
In teh Czech republic there were Kennels breeding GSD w/ wolves. It´s a somewhat mythical story but shows how far these guys work on their GSD breeding.
I have seen working lines in Mexico and the individuals not longer have the curved arching back. It´s progress. Focus is on the animal personality and performance not on the body lines anymore.
Malinnois shepperd are trendy in Mexico and it´s rare to find GSDs. Mallinois are higher voltage and need more input, more exercise. Also, GSDs are majestic unlike Mallinois.

[wc1934]

Originally Posted by dcowboys31

You may have a very hard time finding a home insurance company that will allow the breed as a pet. They are great dogs (had two growing up) but now being in the insurance industry in Massachusetts I could not find one carrier that would agree to cover German Shepherds (among other breeds). The state run insurance here (Mass Fair Plan) will cover your home excluding the dog for liability. Just something to consider.

Jay

Yup.
Not an indictment from me, but here in MA you will be disqualified from being a foster parent if you own certain breeds (e.g. GS, Doberman, Rottweiler) that are considered to aggressive.

[buddybikes]

Often people get their insurance and re-up every year don't think about it. Insurance could send you questionnaire on house/pool/etc then issue comes up.

[colker]

Originally Posted by wc1934

Yup.
Not an indictment from me, but here in MA you will be disqualified from being a foster parent if you own certain breeds (e.g. GS, Doberman, Rottweiler) that are considered to aggressive.

The OP wants a dog not a a child.

[Vonruden]

I’ve had two (Zeus and Odin) and both were extremely smart and easy to train. Both grew up around a lot of people and would mingle at my parties. Extremely protective when in the car, getting gas was always fun in NJ where we have gas attendants. We have a French Bulldog now, cute as hell but dumb as a stump.

[edward12]

We adopted Ivy 7 years ago from a German Shepard rescue organization. She's 8 now.

She's a great dog. Extremely intelligent and easy to train. We do make every effort to socialize her with other dogs and people becasue she has an alpha dog/dominant personality if left unchecked. But she's very gentle. Lots of exercise required.

Ivy is a excellent watchdog - always alert and on point.

We're very lucky.

[CNY rider]

Originally Posted by edward12

We adopted Ivy 7 years ago from a German Shepard rescue organization. She's 8 now.

She's a great dog. Extremely intelligent and easy to train. We do make every effort to socialize her with other dogs and people becasue she has an alpha dog/dominant personality if left unchecked. But she's very gentle. Lots of exercise required.

Ivy is a excellent watchdog - always alert and on point.

We're very lucky.

She's a beauty.
How would you feel hiking or skiing in the woods with her off leash, with the possibility of encountering other people, possibly also with an off leash dog?