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  #31  
Old 01-25-2023, 07:26 AM
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johnniecakes johnniecakes is offline
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Originally Posted by Pinned View Post
Is anyone else tired of beating this dead horse?

Buy what you like. Vote with your wallet if you want rim brakes. We all know the pros and cons by now.
Amen. Don't care what you ride, if I come up to you and you're riding (insert here) brakes I will still say hello and ask how you are doing.
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  #32  
Old 01-25-2023, 07:27 AM
eddief eddief is offline
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disc brakes equal bigger tires

reason enough.
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  #33  
Old 01-25-2023, 07:47 AM
Mikej Mikej is offline
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Originally Posted by oldpotatoe View Post
Bike sales had been flat for a long time. One company's sales go up 2%, somebody else's goes down 2%. Discs on MTBs ARE a good idea. Mud and muck, still have brakes, back a rim, still have brakes but some brainiac thought, 'why not on road bikes? In fact, we'll emphasize how dangerous road riding is and how great it is to ride on dirt roads out in the 'country'. And we'll start to sell fat rims and tires and talk about much 'better' those are, even on those dangerous roads.'
And we'll call it 'Gravel Bikes'....and sell a ton of them...Even tho we know most won't actually ride them on dirt roads, but to the coffee shop for that 25 miler on Sunday. "Ooo, new bike?"..

Uhm, no, if Company A's sales go up, Company B,C,D etc. all can (and have) go up due to the entire market growing about 4-6%. Lets face it, it rim brakes are dead to the LBS sales floor until whats old is new again. I mean, you can wear a PABST trucker hat and ride a fixie w/ no brakes for all I care, but discs are the ruling faction now. I bet you rimers would would have complained about electricity and how stupid it is to run all of that wire when you have a cupboard full of candles. RIP Horse.
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  #34  
Old 01-25-2023, 07:54 AM
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AngryScientist AngryScientist is offline
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haha, I like how his conclusion is

"If you're fat and have weak hands, buy a disc bike, otherwise rim brakes are better"


Last edited by AngryScientist; 01-25-2023 at 08:25 AM.
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  #35  
Old 01-25-2023, 07:59 AM
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oldpotatoe oldpotatoe is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikej View Post
Uhm, no, if Company A's sales go up, Company B,C,D etc. all can (and have) go up due to the entire market growing about 4-6%. Lets face it, it rim brakes are dead to the LBS sales floor until whats old is new again. I mean, you can wear a PABST trucker hat and ride a fixie w/ no brakes for all I care, but discs are the ruling faction now. I bet you rimers would would have complained about electricity and how stupid it is to run all of that wire when you have a cupboard full of candles. RIP Horse.
Quote:
Bike sales had been flat for a long time.
I said 'had'..as in previous years before the 'disc brake revolution'.
Quote:
If it were only that simple. Far too often a rim brake guy is chastised, or criticized for sticking to rim brakes, even here...Often even chastised by 'industry' as they try to sell their 'latest and greatest'.
Like I said.
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  #36  
Old 01-25-2023, 08:11 AM
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mstateglfr mstateglfr is offline
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Originally Posted by Dr Luxurious View Post
ya know, rim brakes ARE disc brakes. the whole wheel is the disc...
Oh look, this tired and pointless observation managed to once again force its way into a rim v disc discussion.
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  #37  
Old 01-25-2023, 08:24 AM
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carlucci1106 carlucci1106 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sg8357 View Post
The internet is powered by dead horses.

I have some circa 1912 cycling magazines, the evil conspiracy
then was the pneumatic tyre.
Also articles about how automobilists were terrorizing cyclists......

This is an oft-used rhetorical device, and I believe, a little misleading. As a product moves through stages of development, obviously more innovation happens in the early phases, and a product and then refinements get exponentially smaller as that product is perfected. 30 years before the pneumatic tire, the "bike" looked like a wooden hobby horse that you propelled like Fred Flintstone, and later after that a Penny-Farthing that was almost sure to kill you.

Same is true in automobiles, and as they are on a fairly align-able evolutionary track- the comparison might be good. EVs aside, the cars of today may be slightly more efficient, and have a lot of bells/whistles that most people don't need that does not affect the overall enjoyment/capability/safety of the driving experience.

Cameras/other "smart" safety features, more things made digital, or push-button do not make the car more capable, but allow the driver to be more lazy. You still need to fill it with fuel after 200-400miles, the tires are still holding air, and you can make the same power no matter how long you've been driving. You can also go much faster than is legal to go, in most cars in N. America.

The cars of the 50s/60s had many shortfalls that made them less safe, and limited from a performance perspective. The seat belt, the fuel injector, air bags, tubeless tires, turbo engines, on and on and on, made the experience better, more efficient, and safer.

Now that you can't make the petrol car better in most of those categories, the "advances" are incremental, and very focused on minutia.

This is where the road bike is. Putting cables down the steerer to save 3-4 watts at best is a lot of squeeze for the juice, and your purchase price paid for a whole design team to come up with that.

Disc brakes are such a huge design change, that we are still in the upslope of "figuring it out" on many different levels. It completely changed the bike for an incremental improvement in braking, not revolutionary.

When entry level cars stopped coming with rear drum brakes, not every family in America jumped up and bought a new car with 4 discs, and since disc brakes had been fully developed with automobiles there were zero
downsides. And that change required no major changes to other systems of the vehicle.

That is where we are now with road bikes. The industry is just looking for a way to sell them. As OldP said, sales are stagnating, have been for years. Had to do something. Some product manager came up with this idea, it was foisted on the masses, no one asked for it, and now we have it.

The scene in Gone in 60 Seconds where Nick Cage first steals "Eleanor" a 1969 Shelby Mustang, he knows the car is not going to be pinpoint precision like a new 20-- Mercedes or some other luxury car. But he remembers how "alive" those supercars of their day felt. Analog. Stripped down. No heated steering wheel.

30 years from now, we'll have the same reaction when we get on our steel rim brake bicycles.

Last edited by carlucci1106; 01-25-2023 at 08:27 AM.
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  #38  
Old 01-25-2023, 08:45 AM
Philster Philster is offline
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I really like this guy's other video's. The one about fore/aft saddle position particularly. I wish he hadn't gotten involved in this beating of a discussion.
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  #39  
Old 01-25-2023, 08:48 AM
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redir redir is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldpotatoe View Post
Bike sales had been flat for a long time. One company's sales go up 2%, somebody else's goes down 2%. Discs on MTBs ARE a good idea. Mud and muck, still have brakes, back a rim, still have brakes but some brainiac thought, 'why not on road bikes? In fact, we'll emphasize how dangerous road riding is and how great it is to ride on dirt roads out in the 'country'. And we'll start to sell fat rims and tires and talk about much 'better' those are, even on those dangerous roads.'
And we'll call it 'Gravel Bikes'....and sell a ton of them...Even tho we know most won't actually ride them on dirt roads, but to the coffee shop for that 25 miler on Sunday. "Ooo, new bike?"..




If it were only that simple. Far too often a rim brake guy is chastised, or criticized for sticking to rim brakes, even here...Often even chastised by 'industry' as they try to sell their 'latest and greatest'.

Great post above from carlucci1106, from in the trenches.
Yup, once disk brakes came to the road bikes all-a-sudden rim brakes are 'a problem.'

I will probably buy one more bike in my life time and it will be a custom steel frame with rim brakes. I'm still riding Campy tubulars built in the 1980's so I figure I'll be good to go in another 30 years if I am even still riding bikes in my 70's and 80's lol!
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  #40  
Old 01-25-2023, 08:50 AM
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charliedid charliedid is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Philster View Post
I really like this guy's other video's. The one about fore/aft saddle position particularly. I wish he hadn't gotten involved in this beating of a discussion.
I think it was an aside conversation and you could tell he was a bit reluctant. Oh well...
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  #41  
Old 01-25-2023, 08:53 AM
whatshubdoc whatshubdoc is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Philster View Post
I really like this guy's other video's. The one about fore/aft saddle position particularly. I wish he hadn't gotten involved in this beating of a discussion.
I just listened to this in the car this morning!

Neill's stuff is gold. (One of the few trained by Steve Hogg I believe.)

His participation in this "discussion" is not entirely his fault; Cam is the one "interviewing" him and is responsible for putting out the content. Why Neill agreed to it, I have no idea. Probably because it helps to get his name out there, and have a somewhat gentle opinion on current affairs to be seen as "relevant".

FWIW I am also in the rim brake camp for road bikes.
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  #42  
Old 01-25-2023, 08:55 AM
openwheelracing openwheelracing is offline
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I feel sorry for anyone not finding joy riding a proper rim brake road bike.

Yes, rim brake is technically disc brake. Caliper, pads and integrated disc rotor. Couple negatives but many upsides.
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  #43  
Old 01-25-2023, 09:17 AM
KonaSS KonaSS is offline
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Hello.....Hello.....Hello.....Hello.......Hello......Hello.....Hello


Just testing. Looks like the Paceline echo chamber is working at 100% today. Carry on.
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  #44  
Old 01-25-2023, 09:26 AM
bigbill bigbill is offline
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My Gunnar has my old Dura Ace 8-speed group from 1991. I rode tens of thousands of miles on that stuff. Ignoring the whole disc brake thing, the Ultegra 8000 group on my Helix is much better when it comes to shifting and the ergonomics of the levers.
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  #45  
Old 01-25-2023, 09:39 AM
Matthew Matthew is offline
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Where can I find a bike with drum brakes? Can't wait to see all the threads discussing the benefits and negatives with those. FFS ride what you want. Why do so many people care about this anymore? It stops a wheel from rotating. It's really not a big deal.
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