105 Di2 vs Rival AXS

[phishrabbi]

Sram is actually wireless

[Dave]

I wouldn't take anyone's advice regarding brake hood suitability, simply because hand size varies so much. My hands are about as small as you'll find. I've owned old Shimano STI, then 25 years on Campy. I figured out a way to bring the brake levers in close to the bars, so I could reach them. Now the levers have reach adjustment, but it's possible to get the disc brake lever close enough that they'll bottom out on the bars with SRAM Force.

I can't complain about any of the brake hoods. I'm on the fatter Force D1 now. Even my stubby fingers can easily make an O around the hood, behind the brake lever. I have no comfort problems. Most problems are due to poor setup and not using a little camper seal foam rubber to smooth the transition onto the bar.

I find the shifting of AXS to be much like Campy mechanical. It's fast enough for me.

Riding a lot with winter gloves, SRAM is the winner.

I want more range than SRAM cranks offer, so I use Shimano GRX. I just switched my bikes to the new 12 speed model. The trade up was about $70 per crank, buying the new ones on sale and selling the old ones on eBay. No one here wanted them.

I use SRAM, but not their brake pads. Those complaining about noise should try Galfer standard pads. They're much easier to bed in. There are many others to choose from.

I can use either road cassettes or a wide range 10-44 or 10-52 with the same XDR freehub. With Shimano, microspline is needed for a 10-45 or 10-52 and road cassettes require the HG freehub. AFAIK, you can't convert one into the other.

One reason I never buy pre-built bikes is the limited options. I build up bikes from the frame, so every part is what I want. I've bought a pre-built, just to get the frame and sold off the rest as a package deal on eBay.

[benb]

Which one has the biggest hoods?

Believe it or not that is what I want. Some generations of hoods have been a bit too small for my taste.

One thing that has annoyed me in the past is SRAM doing alloy threads to save weight on things that are maintenance items where you're going to have to remove/replace that bolt and eventually destroy the part.

The worst offender was a front derailleur cable fixing on Rival back in the day. Luckily that is one that is eliminated on electronic. But IMO Rival/105 level should never have anything like that. IME 105 and Ultegra have never had that kind of thing.. they'll have steel replaceable inserts so you don't destroy a derailleur, and the steel doesn't get chewed up anyway.

I would be looking for that kind of thing.

The other one for me would be DOT vs Mineral. Historically I am heavily biased towards DOT and I have nice DOT tools. But on the road I am heavily biased towards Shimano.. in all likelihood when I have to go hydraulic disc on the road I will just be buying a 2nd set of tools for mineral oil cause Shimano may just have the better options. Even if that ends up being $200 in new tools (seems high) it's worth it to get the bike I like best, and it will still pay for itself really fast. My wife has Shimano MTB disc brakes already so it's not like we've kept the garage 100% one way.

How often does anyone break internally routed Di2 wires? If it's just 1 time to me that might bias me towards Shimano if Shimano has better battery life/fewer batteries and faster shifting.

[fourflys]

I mean, you're not wrong.. and that is on the back of my mind for sure..

as far as price on the wheels/power meter or just the bikes in general- I figured out the other week that Specialized has a Veteran discount that gives me 20% off bikes and 40% off the wheels.. so I can get the wheels and the power meter (would be something like a 4iiii since the Comp is Di2) for less than the $1,200 difference.. basically, I could get the Comp for $4k, wheels for $600, and then it looks like the PM for around $300 if bought new.. I would have to step up to the Elite build if I wanted the SRAM regardless though..

But as Weisan says, I seem to be chasing the "perfect" bike, so we'll see..

Thanks all!

Originally Posted by weisan

4-pal, they both worked fine.

I felt that you have gone through a period of trying different things, partial solutions, impulse or budget buys, none of which have completely worked to your satisfaction and now you are ready to drop some serious coin and hoping that you will hit the jackpot or reach cycling nirvana.

I think that's putting a lot of eggs in one basket, perhaps raising an unrealistic level of expectation.

I understand the frustrations.

For me, it's all part of the fun - the experimentations, the process of self-discovery, the variety of experience - that's why I have bikes of all shapes and forms, steel/alum/titanium/carbon, ranging from size 49 all the way to 58 and they all "fit" , mechanical vs electronic, rim brake vs disc brake, standard reach vs mid-long reach brakes, road-allroad-gravel, tire width clearance from 25mm to 50mm, narrow vs wide handlebar, short stem vs long stem, tubed vs tubeless, so on and so forth - it runs the gamut.

No fixed position.

Be like water.

[fourflys]

Originally Posted by sasquatch16v

and just generally slightly question the Roubaix, that is a bike I personally don't understand the appeal of.

for me, I have an SL4 version (Zertz inserts, no future shock) and it is a really good bike, if a bit long for me in a 54cm.. so the Roubaix is on my radar based on perceived fit of the current SL8 (and SL7 really) bikes.. Plus, I think Specialized just makes good bikes, even if a bit overpriced at full retail.. But I'm not opposed to something with a shorter reach/taller stack.. I am NOT a long and low type of person..

[benb]

Originally Posted by fourflys

for me, I have an SL4 version (Zertz inserts, no future shock) and it is a really good bike, if a bit long for me in a 54cm.. so the Roubaix is on my radar based on perceived fit of the current SL8 (and SL7 really) bikes.. Plus, I think Specialized just makes good bikes, even if a bit overpriced at full retail.. But I'm not opposed to something with a shorter reach/taller stack.. I am NOT a long and low type of person..

"Like the Roubaix but shorter/taller" is basically a prescription to go test ride the Domane.

I was on the fence between the two as well. I put quite a few miles on the Roubaix on both a rental (hundreds of miles) and a test ride before ending up with the Domane.

ISTR I fit fine on both. For both bikes though I like the original iterations better than the newer ones though! I would not trade an SL4 for an SL8!

[robt57]

Originally Posted by benb

I would not trade an SL4 for an SL8!

The only thing future about that shock design is I know there will not be one in my future.

Yeah, you pay a big price IMO if you need to put over a 30mm tire which the newer ones accommodate. But no a/b comparison empirically I confess. SL4 S-Work Roubaix I have is fine machine. Mine gets little luv as I have really gone no disc for road personally.

Addressing fragile wires and routing; Superfluous from where I sit. Unless the smaller newer SD-300 wires are fragile VS SD-50. Only issues I've had [2] were end user errors on my part. Over at least 1/2 doz bikes.

Are the level/bikes in question a case of frame difference as far a FACT level goes. I've had both Fact-8 and Fact 11r Roubaix, and the lower one felt like a brick. So if you notice things like this get the one with the higher Fact spec IMO.

[tomato coupe]

Originally Posted by Dave

I wouldn't take anyone's advice regarding brake hood suitability, simply because hand size varies so much.

Varying hand size is why advice about hood size and shape is extremely useful.

[benb]

Originally Posted by tomato coupe

Varying hand size is why advice about hood size and shape is extremely useful.

The reason I ask is cause I usually need XXL or XXXL gloves. I can palm a basketball.

There have been some Shimano brifters I have a really hard time with and I need to be very very careful about bar selection and hood placement or it feels like I'm trying to jam my hand into a tight spot.

Historically the hood position has really beat the snot out of my hands on rough roads and currently I've pretty much given up on riding "gravel" on drop bars around here.

Back when I had SRAM I did think some of their brifters were better for me. I kept wondering if any of the hydraulic stuff was going to force the hoods to be bigger and end up fitting me better.

[robt57]

Originally Posted by benb

The reason I ask is cause I usually need XXL or XXXL gloves. I can palm a basketball.

My brotha, I give more socks and gloves away than I get to keep.

As far as Shifter size, I rode ST-7700 for 13 years. When I upgraded to 7800 I was like.... Oh, I can actually feel these in my gorilla mitts.

[AJosiahK]

Having ridden both with many miles under each, and worked on both in professional shop settings and at home with my own bikes, its 50/50

My main con for AXS is battery life and brake feel, aside from fat hoods and several bleeds they just dont feel as good as my D/A and rs785s. Period - ie shimano wins

Batteries sure, AXS is a simple swap/charge but you better have a spare battery on you for those long rides. Shimanos battery lasts much longer, however your really screwed if an illprepared rider hasnt charged the shim bike and is headed for a long ride ie it dies. PS never has happened to me no matter the charging state. Tie game

As for the intuitiveness of each, AXS is simpler sure. Di2 smaller buttons but one can get used to that. Plus you have e-tube (or app) that allows you to program every single button, so theoretically one could set up a di2 bike just like an AXS bike. Shimano wins

Both are durable enough, and expensive enough structurally and aestheically. Not really a care I have personally. AXS mechs (rear) do look a bit cooler - tie game

Both brands have rear mechs with clutches - tie game

Set up?, duh AXS wins, dont really think the wires are that fragile esp if your remotely careful but yeah, a hassle to set up if one is doing it themselves and not the most attractive. Never really bothered me. AXS wins

Shifting for both is excellent, no issues there - tie game

AXS does allow for a bit of a wider range, even for 1x and XD wheels are widely available now. AXS wins

thats my 2 cents. do with what you will

[Dave]

Originally Posted by tomato coupe

Varying hand size is why advice about hood size and shape is extremely useful.

Perhaps, if the advisor includes some info on hand size - most don't. I always include small hands/ short fingers in my assessment. I have yet to find a bad hood that I couldn't live with. The Force D1 that I have are considered too wide by some.

[benb]

I'm way more familiar with the MTB brakes.. do the road brakes have the same stereotypical feel differences:

Shimano - more initial grab, less progressive feel
SRAM - less initial grab, more progressive feel

I am partial to the SRAM style feel on MTB but for braking from the hoods I could see liking Shimano's feel. But do they even feel that way on the road? Last time I tried Shimano hydraulic road was 8 years ago and the bike was brand new but clearly needed brake service so didn't feel good. I don't think I've ever tried SRAM road hydraulic.

[benb]

Originally Posted by robt57

My brotha, I give more socks and gloves away than I get to keep.

As far as Shifter size, I rode ST-7700 for 13 years. When I upgraded to 7800 I was like.... Oh, I can actually feel these in my gorilla mitts.

7800 is better for you?

[Likes2ridefar]

Originally Posted by benb

I'm way more familiar with the MTB brakes.. do the road brakes have the same stereotypical feel differences:

Shimano - more initial grab, less progressive feel
SRAM - less initial grab, more progressive feel

I am partial to the SRAM style feel on MTB but for braking from the hoods I could see liking Shimano's feel. But do they even feel that way on the road? Last time I tried Shimano hydraulic road was 8 years ago and the bike was brand new but clearly needed brake service so didn't feel good. I don't think I've ever tried SRAM road hydraulic.

I found my sram force axs brakes to be on and off braking with very little modulation with the stock pads. i like shimano more. I also could not get the pad contact close enough for my needs. It sounds like aftermarket brake pads could solve for this. I replaced them with hope rx4, which are the best hydraulic brakes I’ve used on a bike not a mtb.