wired powertap wheel question???

[djg21]

Originally Posted by shovelhd

Download cradle.

Make sure you get the wired LYC.

Forgot about this. I think I have an extra if need be.

[MorganColeman]

Originally Posted by MattTuck

this.



People who achieved success without power meters.
Eddy
Fausto Coppi
Jacque Antequil
Gino Bartali


People who achieved success with power meters
Lance Armstrong
Alberto Contador
George Hincapie


Think, Nick, which list do you want to add your name to?

In terms of reputation, I'd choose the first list. But I'd rather have the last three's bank accounts

FWIW, I disagree that true Euro Pros only went by feel and eschewed other technology. Not all are/were the same, but I suspect that they used the best of what was available at the time. Tommy Simpson used what as available. And I think we all know what choices we would have made were he racing today.

Morgan

[thegunner]

sigh... http://www.cycling-inform.com/cyclis...he-eurocyclist

[Joachim]

Sorry to burst your bubble, but A LOT of euro pro's used HR monitors in the 90's. As soon as LT testing was incorporated most of the riders did not train by feel anymore. Sure, there were some exceptions, but those were in the minority. How do I know? Well, lets just say that a certain ex-Sky team dr, did the testing and I often ran into Rabobank, Lotto and Palmans riders while sitting in the waiting room.

[gavingould]

i'd pass on a wired PT setup for some of the reasons outlined by others - getting the rest of the parts and service going forward, especially if you've already got a garmin 500/800 or whatever that can do ANT+.

the only reason to consider a wired setup IMO is purely budget, and then i'd only be likely to get the whole shebang from a seller i trust.

it's not super hard to piece together all the kit, but could be a pain and you're likely to wind up very near wireless territory $-wise after getting a sharkfin, wire kit, little yella computer, cradle, all that crap.

wait for a wheel or hub. there are a lot of them out there, and more come to market at favorable prices as early adopters move to crank or pedal-based systems.

might not hurt to ask that seller if it includes the whole deal though; no mention of it but if so, it's a cheap experiment and if you like it you can resell and move up a level.

[MattTuck]

Originally Posted by thegunner

i think the comment was tongue-in-cheek

Yeah, it was a joke. But let's be honest. Back then, people were racing up the same big mountains they do today, with a steak in their belly, smoking cigarettes and MAYBE being able to shift. Being able to ride far/fast has little to do with the technology used in training and more to do with your love for being on the bike and miles in your legs.

Will a power meter and accompanying structured training plan make you faster? Sure. But if you're really that hungry to ride fast, I bet you could accomplish similar results at a fraction of the cost using a combination of periodization and interval training.

[thegunner]

don't want to derail the topic any further, but if anyone was wondering... I was joking with all the posts in the thread. carry on .

[AngryScientist]

Originally Posted by thegunner

I was joking with all the posts in the thread. carry on .

the rules of the euro cyclist are not a joking matter.

[Joachim]

Originally Posted by MattTuck

Will a power meter and accompanying structured training plan make you faster? Sure. But if you're really that hungry to ride fast, I bet you could accomplish similar results at a fraction of the cost using a combination of periodization and interval training.

I beg to differ. If, and thats a big if, you are able to accurately monitor any signs of overtraining, its going to take longer to reach the same level. HR+power based training is the shortest way to get fit and strong using a structured program. Sure, you can get strong riding 4hrs a day without a power meter or HR monitor, but thats not what we are talking about here. When people talk about "old school euro pro's" training on "feel", they sometimes forget that training on "feel" involved riding for 5-8hrs per day.

[MattTuck]

Originally Posted by Joachim

I beg to differ. If, and thats a big if, you are able to accurately monitor any signs of overtraining, its going to take longer to reach the same level. HR+power based training is the shortest way to get fit and strong using a structured program. Sure, you can get strong riding 4hrs a day without a power meter or HR monitor, but thats not what we are talking about here. When people talk about "old school euro pro's" training on "feel", they sometimes forget that training on "feel" involved riding for 5-8hrs per day.

Joachim,

You're probably right, do you have a source? I was going based on my own luddite bias, and suspicion of 'people trying to sell me something'...

I found this after a bit of searching, I know it is just one study. And I have no idea if the Journal is reputable or the scholars are respected. Are there studies that show the opposite result?

Journal of Sports Science and Medicine (2011) 10, 498 - 501

Technological advances in interval training for cyclists have led to the development of both heart rate (HR) monitors and powermeters (PM). Despite the growing popularity of PM use, the superiority of PM-based training has not been established. The aim of the present study was to investigate the relative effectiveness of HR-based versus PM-based interval training on 20 km time trial (20km TT), lactate threshold (LT) power, and peak aerobic capacity (VO2max) in recreational cyclists. Participants (n =20; M age=33.9, SD =13) completed a baseline 20km TT to establish their VO2max and LT and were then randomly assigned to either HR-determined or PM-determined training sessions. Over a period of up to 5 weeks participants completed 7.2 (± 1.1) interval training sessions at their specific LT for their respective interval training method. Repeated measures analyses of variances (ANOVAs) showed that both HR-based and PM-based training groups significantly improved their LT power (F(1,16) = 28., p < 0.01, eta2 = 0.63) and 20km TT time (F(1,16) = 4.92, p = 0.04, eta2 = 0.24) at posttest, showing a 17 watt increase (9.8%) and a near 3-and-a-half minute improvement (7.8%) in 20km TT completion time. There were no significant group (HR vs. PM) x time (baseline vs. posttest) interactions for 20km TT completion time, LT power, or VO2max ratings. Our results coincide with the literature supporting the effectiveness of interval training for endurance athletes. Furthermore, our findings indicate that there is no empirical evidence for the superiority of any single type of device in the implementation of interval training. This study indicates that there are no noticeable advantages to using PM to increase performance in the average recreational cyclist, suggesting that low cost HR monitor are equally capable as training devices.

[Joachim]

I need to read the complete paper instead of just the abstract before I can comment but already this study partially proves my point.. HR instead of feel. To compare HR vs power a few things come to mind.. Short intervals are more effective using a PM since HR takes too long to catch up. Secondly, ever tried training by HR in extreme cold or hot weather? Not so effective. For example, for long rides I actually propose to my riders using a power meter in the beginning, then as soon as HR decoupling occur to switch to HR. Bottom line HR and/or PM is better than feel for riders with limited time.

[MattTuck]

I misunderstood your post, I thought it was in favor of power meter training above all else. Reading it again, it sounds more like you are just suggesting that 'feel' based training is below all else. I'd agree with you there.

[slidey]

I'd think MattTuck's comparison, while absolutely true, is mainly for comic effect.

Originally Posted by stuckey

That is an absolutely ridiculous comparison, if they had power meters in the old days they would have used them.

OP: Go wireless, investment in a wired powertap is a waste at this point in time.

[shovelhd]

I agree with slidey. By the time you're done a wired kit is going to cost you $350-$400. A good used Pro+ or SL+ wheel will cost you $500-$600. I would stay away from the Elite+ unless it is strictly for the trainer. That hub is a slug. If your Pro+ or SL+ hub breaks, Saris will gut it and replace it with G3 internals for a few hundred bucks. They don't fix the older hubs anymore.

[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by Nooch

Don't forget about Stages Cycling, too: http://www.stagescycling.com/ (except it only works with metal cranks right now, it would appear), and Power2Max

Stages is in the $750 range, no head included. The wheel mentioned is $200. Add a wiring harness, Powertap head-and good to go.