Wheels for a light rider 404 vs 303

[comish83]

Any suggestions on a 10 speed shimano compatible rear race wheel (tubular) for a light rider/climber (< 125 lbs) who is racing mostly flat races (< 5% grade) . Reading various forums everyone seems to say to stay away from the Zipp 808s if you are light due to cross winds. I would think my lesser flat power output versus larger/normal sized racers would result in slow acceleration with a heavier wheel. Hopefully someone of a similar frame can verify if Zipp 404s are not an issue with crosswinds or acceleration.

[bikinchris]

Rider skill does play a part in handling. Some people can react quickly to cross wind buffeting and others are all over the road. The handling skill makes a difference in which wheel to choose.
Super light riders can choose any wheels they want. I'm jealous.
On another note, I'm gluing tires for a customer on Bora Ultra 35's and man those things weigh NOTHING.

[shovelhd]

I raced at 143 pounds and would never ride an 808 front. 606's were the best for crits, very fast, but heavy. For road races I used either 404's or Hed Stinger 3's.

[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by comish83

Any suggestions on a 10 speed shimano compatible rear race wheel (tubular) for a light rider/climber (< 125 lbs) who is racing mostly flat races (< 5% grade) . Reading various forums everyone seems to say to stay away from the Zipp 808s if you are light due to cross winds. I would think my lesser flat power output versus larger/normal sized racers would result in slow acceleration with a heavier wheel. Hopefully someone of a similar frame can verify if Zipp 404s are not an issue with crosswinds or acceleration.

Find a light 400 or so gram aluminum rim(Kinlin?) and low spoke count, light hub(BHS), lace with Cx-Ray...about 750 grams or so.

[Pierre]

I'm 164lbs and ride the equivalent of 404's. I'd like to think I've got some reasonable bike handling skills. When winds are high I have to be vigilant but I've never been concerned.

At 125lbs I would either go 303 all around or 303 on front and 404 on rear. I think you'll get pushed around too much with 404's.

[Lanternrouge]

I would recommend a 303 over a 404 for you. The reason is that while you likely won't feel issues with a 404 rear, so long as you think you may, then you do. At the end of the day, I doubt your placing will be affected by your choice between a 303 or 404. FWIW, I've found Enve 3.4s to feel less affected by the wind than 303s.

[chiasticon]

if you're buying new, then try and demo them both from the shop. most Zipp retailers have this option. if you're buying used or can't demo, I'd suggest 303's. I don't think the difference between the two is huge (like a bike length over a 40k TT) and if you're worried about stability, the 303's should be easier to control.

[DG24]

Enve 3/4's?

[coffeecake]

At 125 lbs, I agree that 303s are probably better to be safe.

I would recommend carefully trying the 404s on a windy day if possible. I am 145 and use 404 firecrests. They handle unexpectedly well in windy conditions which surprised me.

[carpediemracing]

A taller front wheel will always catch air, even under a heavier rider. The geometry of the front end of the bike guarantees this to be the case. Even at heavier weights (180-190 lbs) I found a 60mm (similar to 404) to be an absolute handful over 45 mph, like on a descent.

I usually ride/race flatter routes and rarely exceed 45 mph. For these situations I'm usually okay with a 75/90, and before those I had a 60/60. I got down to the mid 140s on those wheels. I think at 125 I sometimes used a disk rear but there weren't that many aero front wheels available. At 130-132 I did use a TriSpoke / HED3 front with a disk rear at certain windswept races.

I find that tall wheels tend to do better at higher sustained speeds and in cross-tailwinds. For headwinds they're practically useless and for crosswinds I just suffer through using them.

If you're doing lower sustained speeds (dropping below, say, 20 mph regularly), repeated accelerations, and your average speed is under about 23 mph, then a shorter wheel would probably be better. If you're doing sustained speeds of 25-28 mph, if your speed rarely drops below 22-23 mph, and you see some bursts of speed well over 30 mph, a taller wheel will probably suit you better.

When in doubt get a shorter front wheel, to retain controllability, and get a taller rear wheel to get that sail effect in cross-tailwinds. That would be my approach.

[John H.]

Are you considering new wheels? Used wheels?
What bike?
Reason I ask is that some bikes are not wide enough in the rear for some of the Zipp 404 rear wheels.
This was especially true with some of the Specialized Tarmac frames.
If you are considering new wheels, there are some options out there that are not aero than a 404- but with less depth.

Originally Posted by comish83

Any suggestions on a 10 speed shimano compatible rear race wheel (tubular) for a light rider/climber (< 125 lbs) who is racing mostly flat races (< 5% grade) . Reading various forums everyone seems to say to stay away from the Zipp 808s if you are light due to cross winds. I would think my lesser flat power output versus larger/normal sized racers would result in slow acceleration with a heavier wheel. Hopefully someone of a similar frame can verify if Zipp 404s are not an issue with crosswinds or acceleration.

[woodworker]

I'll chime in. I have the newer (but not newest) 404 NSW's. I really like them, but if I had to do it over again, I'd get the 303's. And, for reference, I weigh around 190. I live by the Coast, so we get some breezy, even gusty conditions. I find that I can control the wheels pretty well, but it takes some getting used to. Especially for a lighter rider the 303's would be better.

BTW, I ride solo a fair amount and can definitely feel the benefits of the aero wheel vs. a low profile aluminum. It seems like you just keep rolling on fairly flat terrain (less loss of momentum). I'm not sure that the effect would be as great if you're riding in a pack.

[comish83]

Originally Posted by John H.

Are you considering new wheels? Used wheels?
What bike?
Reason I ask is that some bikes are not wide enough in the rear for some of the Zipp 404 rear wheels.
This was especially true with some of the Specialized Tarmac frames.
If you are considering new wheels, there are some options out there that are not aero than a 404- but with less depth.

Whatever I buy I am putting on my 2009 Cannondale Caad 9. The thread mentioned below (American Classic 38's) seemed to be a decent price and frankly about the same as what folks are asking for a used Zipp 303 set.

http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=206379

[bitpuddle]

Originally Posted by comish83

Any suggestions on a 10 speed shimano compatible rear race wheel (tubular) for a light rider/climber (< 125 lbs) who is racing mostly flat races (< 5% grade)

Unless you are going against the clock (tri/TT), deep wheels are mostly an aesthetic thing. In a road race you should be in the draft most of the time. The real gains from an extra twenty mm in depth are quite small. If I see someone riding 808s in a pack, I stay away from them; I don’t trust that they’ll hold a line.

Bontrager and Roval make nice 30mm rims. The Fulcrum Racing Speed 35 is also really nice.

Make sure that frame has clearance for a shape like a Firecrest.