OT: For the Parents & Educators: What is Happening in the Fall?

[Dino Suegiù]

I do not see how any learning that is by definition hands-on or interactive such as science labs, or studio arts courses, or architecture/design, or theater, or music, even team sports, etc., can effectively be taught remotely, especially at the advanced high school/college/university level.

Private K-8 or HS (or even advanced level) individual music lessons, etc via ZOOM might be OK, but I don't see how that can works for ensembles, and Bard, Harvard, Berklee, Juilliard, etc. let alone the local CC where that interchange is critical and formative. Arts/design/theater courses even less so. Designing a building, doing a physics experiment, doing Shakespeare, dissecting the frog all via ZOOM only? Chemistry labs? 4x100 relays, virtually? It sounds like a disaster in the making. Collaboration is not the same on some screen and mic.

I had a doctor's appointment via telephone today. As benign an experience as possible, it still sucked not to be in the room, discussing.

And children not playing together, sharing and collaborating and gleaning, is children not learning as creatively and effectively, and so sadly potentially becoming less "children" by the ZOOM call.

What a bizarre, hideous state of affairs. To deny the culpability of agencies is to just ostrich the whole thing further forward, a waste.

[dbh]

Originally Posted by peanutgallery

How does an institution justify this as compared to the cost? Harvard might be able to get away with it, but places like Dickinson, Ithaca, Washington and Lee?

Not to mention the fact that their respective staffs have decades of experience...not teaching in this manner. It'll be interesting

Simple answer is their costs for providing education don't go down in the shift to remote learning. You've still got to pay for the physical plant, salaries and benefits for faculty and staff, etc. Working in higher ed, I can very much attest to the fact that universities of all stripes, not just the well-endowed ivies are bleeding cash. A ton of smaller schools aren't going to survive this. Losing more revenue from food and board as well as the many tuition dollars from full pay international students is going to hurt a lot.

[XXtwindad]

I read a couple of interesting articles this weekend:

https://www.sfchronicle.com/educatio...l-15381406.php

We’ve compiled several scenarios, and asked teachers and officials to imagine those first days of school in the fall.

Half of a third-grade class lines up outside a classroom, 6 feet apart, masks on. Typically, the teacher would greet each student with a fist bump or choreographed handshake. Instead, he stands back as Group A students file to their desks. The other half, Group B, is at home, waiting for lessons via videoconference. Those at home will swap with the other group for in-person instruction the following week. The kids in the classroom are instructed not to touch the guitars, keyboards or ukuleles hanging on the walls, or the other curiosities and items their veteran teacher has collected as teaching tools over the years. They are prohibited from gathering on the carpet where normally they would sit hip to hip for read-aloud time. Instead, the teacher leads a morning class cheer using sign language, so students avoid yelling or singing, reducing the chance of coronavirus spread.

The scenario is a little sad, said Mark Rosenberg, a third-grade teacher at San Francisco’s Monroe Elementary. Gee, ya think?

On the other hand, from a perspective of a working mother: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/02/b...schooling.html

"Let me say the quiet part loud: In the Covid-19 economy, you’re allowed only a kid or a job. I resent articles that view the struggle of working parents this year as an emotional concern. We are not burned out because life is hard this year. We are burned out because we are being rolled over by the wheels of an economy that has bafflingly declared working parents inessential."


At this juncture in time, we're being asked to reimagine everything. Some institutions are more conducive to being reimagined: it's not too hard to transition your living room into an office or gym. But "going to school" has been ingrained in our cultural psyche for two centuries. And now, the proverbial "little school on the hill" is to be replaced by ... Zoom.

But what other choice is there? I have a friend and client whose father is very ill. And his seven year-old daughter needs an education and to be around other kids. It's a no-win situation.

[peanutgallery]

It's going to be interesting, wondering if it's a long awaited market adjustment

Originally Posted by dbh

Simple answer is their costs for providing education don't go down in the shift to remote learning. You've still got to pay for the physical plant, salaries and benefits for faculty and staff, etc. Working in higher ed, I can very much attest to the fact that universities of all stripes, not just the well-endowed ivies are bleeding cash. A ton of smaller schools aren't going to survive this. Losing more revenue from food and board as well as the many tuition dollars from full pay international students is going to hurt a lot.

[dbh]

Originally Posted by peanutgallery

It's going to be interesting, wondering if it's a long awaited market adjustment

Unlikely. Will probably just cull the weakest from the herd. Think small colleges and universities that lack brand cache and endowments yet they charge sky high tuition. For those colleges, it may well be game over. I think in fact at many top tier public schools, you're just going to see tuition increase because state funding is going to drop and international enrollment is going to take a huge hit.

[rustychisel]

Originally Posted by dbh

Simple answer is their costs for providing education don't go down in the shift to remote learning. You've still got to pay for the physical plant, salaries and benefits for faculty and staff, etc. Working in higher ed, I can very much attest to the fact that universities of all stripes, not just the well-endowed ivies are bleeding cash. A ton of smaller schools aren't going to survive this. Losing more revenue from food and board as well as the many tuition dollars from full pay international students is going to hurt a lot.

This.

It's a worldwide thing in higher education. We're good here (comparatively) but the international student market has been stopped in its tracks. I'm teaching about 50% this semester, all of it remote (is what we're told so far), and I consider myself lucky.

[happycampyer]

Originally Posted by jtakeda

<snip>

I heard harvard decided to do the entire 2020-2021 year online so its possible higher education might follow but I dont see it happening for k-12 maybe half online half in person?

Originally Posted by Ken Robb

I just heard that Harvard will offer no on-campus classes this Fall. Hmm, how will courses that NEED lab work be taught if this is so.

<snip>

That's not what I have heard. My understanding is that Harvard is limiting on-campus attendance to 40% of its students, allowing only freshman and some upperclass students to attend in-person in the fall. Freshmen could get sent home in the spring under two of three scenarios, depending on conditions with the virus.

https://www.thecrimson.com/article/2...us-fall-plans/

[parris]

I haven't read the entire thread and if this has been covered already I apologize.

Some of the things that we're hearing locally that is a potential issue is that a good number of teachers are in a higher risk category due to age, health issues, family with health issues etc. That goes the same for many staff that work in schools. Then there's the issue of school bus drivers that are in those same category classes. How many kids to a bus? How's that bus going to be cleaned? Are all the kids going to be temp checked before they get on a bus etc etc etc.

Our local university is looking to go to a shortened fall semester. What's been proposed is cut out ALL breaks, run the classes until Thanksgiving which would be the end of the fall semester, don't allow students off campus once they're there. When was the last time a bunch of college kids ever stayed on campus during a weekend? The off campus thing is completely off the wall. The university has not only the main campus but also 3 remote sites! Then there's the issue of commuter students. Our son is one of these.

The whole issue is a mess that has no easy answers.

[peanutgallery]

That'll be a shift in the market

Pretty bad when the admin is leveraging the future of a institution on student fees for ancillary services and international students paying full boat. Guessing those admins won't be getting their bonus FWIW, dropping the boy off the 2nd week of August at a state school. Interested to see what actually happens

Originally Posted by dbh

Unlikely. Will probably just cull the weakest from the herd. Think small colleges and universities that lack brand cache and endowments yet they charge sky high tuition. For those colleges, it may well be game over. I think in fact at many top tier public schools, you're just going to see tuition increase because state funding is going to drop and international enrollment is going to take a huge hit.

[jtakeda]

Originally Posted by happycampyer

That's not what I have heard. My understanding is that Harvard is limiting on-campus attendance to 40% of its students, allowing only freshman and some upperclass students to attend in-person in the fall. Freshmen could get sent home in the spring under two of three scenarios, depending on conditions with the virus.

https://www.thecrimson.com/article/2...us-fall-plans/

In addition to freshmen, Harvard will host as many students who “must be on campus to progress academically” this fall as it can without exceeding the 40 percent threshold. All courses will be taught virtually for students both on and off campus.

They will have people on campus who dont have sufficient access to computers or a place to live up to 40% but everything is online

On campus attendance doesnt mean on campus classes

[ColonelJLloyd]

Originally Posted by XXtwindad

It's a no-win situation.

Until we have a vaccine it seems that's the short of it.

[joosttx]

Might a good year for college kids just take and year off and travel the world. My nephew has covid right now and he told me he is kinda glad he got it because he doesn't have to worry about it when he returns for college. If I were his parent and his classes were online I would strongly consider buying him a ticket somewhere to explore or to volunteer for something overseas. Or intern a year or work a year at something.

[jtakeda]

Originally Posted by joosttx

Might a good year for college kids just take and year off and travel the world. My nephew has covid right now and he told me he is kinda glad he got it because he doesn't have to worry about it when he returns for college. If I were his parent and his classes were online I would strongly consider buying him a ticket somewhere to explore or to volunteer for something overseas. Or intern a year or work a year at something.

you should warn him that its possible to get it more than once

[gasman]

Originally Posted by jtakeda

you should warn him that its possible to get it more than once

Actually, I don’t think we know if that’s true or not as we don’t have good data.

[cmbicycles]

I teach elementary music. I'm not sure how it will look for me in the fall, or to be honest, if I will even have a job. Music is the first thing to get cut when budgets are tight. The last I heard for k-5 in my district was the goal of alternating two days on and two days off for students, with Fridays being virtual for everyone.

Virtual learning was difficult for me to do, especially as there is little budget for the arts to begin with and my personal resources were all geared towards in person, collaborative learning. I dont know what I will be doing in the fall,but without an effective vaccine or treatment, I dont know that I want to be back in the school environment...but I am planning out some options for whatever happens.

There are lots of issues of course with any course of action either in opening or virtual learning. Anything can be made to work, it it's a question of whether the resources and supporting structures will be available and in place. Our school district currently has no official plan in place for the fall, so teachers cant really plan their course of action, and support structures need time to be built.

One issue with in person learning for K-5 is that younger kids cant effectively social distance and wear masks, I just dont think it is a developmentally appropriate expectation. Yes they can be taught to do so, but I doubt they are social distancing in their communities and I have no way of knowing what their parents have taught them for social expectations in school. Having parents on board with school expectations was not an easy task before Covid, for the present situation I just don't know what to expect.

Regular budgets will likely be insufficient to properly clean, provide ppe, and maintain appropriate indoor air quality, along with regular things like basic classroom supplies and meals. My district is historically underfunded, ours is a title1 school, 95% of students qualify for free/reduced lunch and breakfast, a bunch get bags of food to take home on weekends. Our district is providing meals and food throughout the summer for students at different locations throughout the city, staffed by teachers and volunteers. Still, some distribution sites have closed for people testing positive.

I teach in a 105 year old building that already has moisture and air quality issues. I know there is little to be done to improve these issues outside of major renovation work, realistically involves gutting the building, or a new building. Neither of those will happen, so the schools will be disinfected and deep cleaned and that's it.

Let's face it, schools are built for efficiency, not maximizing social distance. I had a 20x30 room, no furniture, 20+ kids sat on a 10x12 rug on the floor. I couldn't get better flooring and we did a lot of different kinds of activities so that chairs were often a bigger hindrance than help. I dont think that music classes will be a priority, they never have been, but since group singing is out, especially in an already poor indoor air quality, that removes over 90% of what I do. Everything I do in classes is reinforced by or centered on chanting/singing together.

Using buses to get kids to and from school will be interesting for in person learning. We had buses do double routes sometimes already due to a shortage of buses and drivers. Now you will need every bus to do double runs at 1/2 capacity. While I guess it's possible, it's going to be costly as its not the efficiency the system was designed for. If you split days, how do you decide who comes and who doesnt? By neighborhood or geographical area, by individual class makeup, both, what about siblings, etc?

There are of course many teachers who would have to cut themselves off from family and friends for the duration of the school year, as well as those with pre-existing conditions that may make it too great a risk to be teaching in person without effective treatments or a vaccine.

So called adults are not making it easy to get ahead of this virus right now, they are tired of social distancing, believe that it's not that bad, or a whole host of other reasons. Some of them are parents, so how well will their kids maintain social distance requirements in school?

Students with IEPs/etc for certain learning accomodations, will likely not be able to get the same level of services. Schools could get in a lot of trouble for not meeting the legal requirements of these documents unless there is some sort of grace extended by state/fed level or parents. Some students with hearing or speech impairments will struggle with masks, and not everyone will have a clear mask so you can see their lips move for those that helps.

As a parent, we homeschool. Our kids were part of a co-op for some subjects (algebra/latin/french/science) and those all went virtual. We arent planning on spending the same money for virtual learning classes in the fall, actually planning on doing more at home. Obviously some subjects will do fine virtually, but others will not. I am proud of how well my kids did with the switch to virtual learning, but I know my wife can do as good or better job with most subjects taught at home. Too bad we cant deduct materials used for homeschool teaching like I can for public school teaching.

As a parent who is a teacher, I already am super aware about trying to not bring home germs from my school. We live in a small 3br 1ba house, there isnt a place I can quarantine myself short of a hotel or as tent. In a Covid environment where I doubt the ability of my school community to maintain best practices and environment, I honestly dont know how I feel about in person learning for schools in the fall. Obviously you cant open up the rest of the economy if kids are at home, but that's another burden placed on teachers as you dont know what is coming into your classroom with your students, where they and their family have been, what precautions they have taken/ignored/etc.

Best wishes to all the other teachers. I dont envy the school leaders making these decisions, nor the teachers who will have to make it work.