Wheel building

[ultraman6970]

I do not have tension meter and never had issues with slow count wheelsets. What I do tho is to add nipple washers, the nipple gets easier to turn. I do wheels by feel, back in the day we did not have all the techkie stuff young ones do now a days.

Since the op had built wheels already, he might have some feel to the touch already.

This is my opinion ok? Im not from the US so my school is tad different to what people is used to where the numbers is what it counts.

[tctyres]

Not so relevant ... but fun nonetheless.....
https://youtu.be/1pXm-WlUFqs

[m4rk540]

Originally Posted by David in Maine

Thanks Eric and everyone,

Feeling like I might be getting in over my head with this! Thinking I'll just send the hubs off to a real wheel builder!

David

Especially with those hubs. Expect a lot of maintenance with a complete overhaul every few seasons.

[David in Maine]

Originally Posted by tctyres

Not so relevant ... but fun nonetheless.....
https://youtu.be/1pXm-WlUFqs

Love that!

[David in Maine]

Originally Posted by ultraman6970

I do not have tension meter and never had issues with slow count wheelsets. What I do tho is to add nipple washers, the nipple gets easier to turn.

Do you use washers on only the rear, drive side spokes or on all spokes?

David

[Gummee]

Originally Posted by David in Maine

Thanks Eric and everyone,

Feeling like I might be getting in over my head with this! Thinking I'll just send the hubs off to a real wheel builder!

David

Not really. No.

Lacing's the easy part. The final round and true? Different story.

You don't need a tension meter to build good wheels. ...and you can build crappy wheels with a tension meter. It's less about the tension meter and more about the mind behind the spoke wrench

M

[David in Maine]

Originally Posted by ergott

For your weight and that spoke count I'd consider the standard Altamont (not Lite) or the Astral Radiant. Both have some more material in them and I think will prove more durable over the years.

Eric,

Which of these rims do you prefer? Astral is $30 more--is it worth it? Would you consider the Pacenti Forza a possibility as well, or is it too light for my heft. I am quite easy on equipment by the way--I'm a spinner, not a masher and plan to ride with 28c tires.

Gummee,

Thanks for the vote of confidence. I think my truing skills are pretty solid! Maybe I will give it a go!

David

[marciero]

Originally Posted by David in Maine

Mark,

If I were to build without a tensiometer, the question is how to set the baseline pitch/tension by feel and ear. When I've built 32 spoke wheels, I've compared the pitch to some other already built wheels and they have turned out fine. 32 3x is much more forgiving I would think.

David

It helps to have one or more reference wheelsets with same or similar spoke, rim, and hub configuration for comparison. I've also tensioned and then brought to lbs to check tension on a spoke or two. Agree that differences in tension/pitch are very easy to detect. At lower tensions you can easily hear pitch difference resulting from 1/2 turn of nipple. As tension increases it may be more like one turn. Is analogous to identifying musical intervals. Most of us dont have perfect pitch but are quite sensitive to the quality of different musical intervals-two notes with a given frequency ratio regardless of the base frequency-or when something is out of tune. The unison-1:1 freq ratio- is the easiest to identify.

[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by David in Maine

I've built quite a few sets of straightforward 32 and 36 spoke three cross wheels in my life. I'm planning a 24/28 spoke wheelset built around some Tune Mig/Mag hubs. Rim TBD, but considering Velocity quill, Boyd Altamont light, or Belgium plus. I weigh between 185 and 190 usually. What challenges if any should I face building a lower spoke count wheel. Can I tension these properly without a spoke tensiometer? What spokes should I use for a reliable, every day wheel.

Thanks all!

David

Wheelbuilding is wheelbuilding..lace the front 2 cross and the rear 3 cross but
If ya want proper tension, you need a tension meter. Any wheelbuilder that says they can either 'feel' tension or use the music note stuff..well, they build wheels but aren't a wheelbuilder.

As I mentioned, heavier rims(Boyd and Astral) are more reliable than lighter rims(Quill) but I think my build idea would work for you.

[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by David in Maine

Mark,

If I were to build without a tensiometer, the question is how to set the baseline pitch/tension by feel and ear. When I've built 32 spoke wheels, I've compared the pitch to some other already built wheels and they have turned out fine. 32 3x is much more forgiving I would think.

David

You are looking at thinner spokes on the left side rear..so the 'tone' gig is out the window, IMHO..yes, if you have a decent 'ear' you can get them pretty even but 'proper'? Doubt it.

[marciero]

"Spoke tension can be measured directly with a tension meter, or it can be determined by comparing the tone of the wheel to another properly tensioned wheel with the same components.... You can accurately match tension among spokes by matching their tone."

J. Brandt, The Bicycle Wheel.

[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by marciero

"Spoke tension can be measured directly with a tension meter, or it can be determined by comparing the tone of the wheel to another properly tensioned wheel with the same components.... You can accurately match tension among spokes by matching their tone."

J. Brandt, The Bicycle Wheel.

errr, without a tension meter, how do ya know the other wheel is 'properly tensioned'??

geez, I am not a guy who values speed when building a wheel but I'm sure not gonna build a wheel, then start plucking spokes, compare to another wheel and try to finish the thing..buy a tension meter, there are some good, inexpensive ones out there, and finish the wheel..

Ride a wheel that is under tensioned, even if the tension 'sounds' even and you can warp/bend/deform the rim...and the thing will not stay true, 'may' break spokes, etc...spend the $50-$100 if yer gonna build wheels and be done with it.

[David in Maine]

Ok, I found a Park tensiometer that I can borrow for the build. Now I can call my self a wheel builder

David

[ergott]

Originally Posted by David in Maine

Eric,

Which of these rims do you prefer? Astral is $30 more--is it worth it? Would you consider the Pacenti Forza a possibility as well, or is it too light for my heft. I am quite easy on equipment by the way--I'm a spinner, not a masher and plan to ride with 28c tires.

Gummee,

Thanks for the vote of confidence. I think my truing skills are pretty solid! Maybe I will give it a go!

David

Both Boyd and Astral are excellent. Astral are MUSA if that matters, Boyd offer the ceramic brake track (more expensive) if you prefer. Easton R90SL and Hed Belgium+ would also be solid choices.

[ultraman6970]

I use them in both sides, front or even front ones... sapim HM washers (other brands have them aswell), i have built with the oval ones aswell, the issue with the oval flat ones is that they dont always fit in the spoke hole, thats why I use those ones.

Help to tension the spoke better because the nipple will turn smoothly on the washer, put a dab of oil and good to go.

Originally Posted by David in Maine

Do you use washers on only the rear, drive side spokes or on all spokes?

David