Wheel building

[David in Maine]

I've built quite a few sets of straightforward 32 and 36 spoke three cross wheels in my life. I'm planning a 24/28 spoke wheelset built around some Tune Mig/Mag hubs. Rim TBD, but considering Velocity quill, Boyd Altamont light, or Belgium plus. I weigh between 185 and 190 usually. What challenges if any should I face building a lower spoke count wheel. Can I tension these properly without a spoke tensiometer? What spokes should I use for a reliable, every day wheel.

Thanks all!

David

[Black Dog]

Originally Posted by David in Maine

I've built quite a few sets of straightforward 32 and 36 spoke three cross wheels in my life. I'm planning a 24/28 spoke wheelset built around some Tune Mig/Mag hubs. Rim TBD, but considering Velocity quill, Boyd Altamont light, or Belgium plus. I weigh between 185 and 190 usually. What challenges if any should I face building a lower spoke count wheel. Can I tension these properly without a spoke tensiometer? What spokes should I use for a reliable, every day wheel.

Thanks all!



David

No. You will never get a great wheel if you build it without a tension meter. Since you are using less spokes proper tension will be crucial. Too much and rim will fail, too little and spokes will break and wheel will not stay true. Experienced professional wheel builders use tension meters on every build because it is necessary. Otherwise the set up you are looking at will work for you, I would not use less spokes for your size.

[AngryScientist]

Originally Posted by Black Dog

Since you are using less spokes proper tension will be crucial. Too much and rim will fail, too little and spokes will break and wheel will not stay true

this is true, and even more importantly: what makes a good, reliable wheel is even spoke tension. this is one area where a spoke tension meter is indispensable.

[Tony T]

The Park tensiometers is "ok", Used it when I did my first wheelbuild, but was not impressed with the accuracy, so before finalizing the build I got the Wheel Fanatyk Tensiometer. Expensive. Analog is $200 ($235 for digital)

[Mark McM]

Originally Posted by AngryScientist

this is true, and even more importantly: what makes a good, reliable wheel is even spoke tension. this is one area where a spoke tension meter is indispensable.

Of course, spoke tension should be high and even. But while it is difficult to get the correct tension without a tension meter, you don't need a tension meter to get the tensions even. Many tension meters don't have particularly high resolution and precision, so often you can equalize the tension better by matching the frequency of the tones made when the spokes are plucked.

[AngryScientist]

Originally Posted by Mark McM

Of course, spoke tension should be high and even. But while it is difficult to get the correct tension without a tension meter, you don't need a tension meter to get the tensions even. Many tension meters don't have particularly high resolution and precision, so often you can equalize the tension better by matching the frequency of the tones made when the spokes are plucked.

sorry Mark, but i disagree with you on this one. a decent tension meter is going to be better, especially for non-professional wheel builders than plucking the spokes to get even tension.

[David in Maine]

Originally Posted by Mark McM

so often you can equalize the tension better by matching the frequency of the tones made when the spokes are plucked.

Well, I am a musician!

[redir]

I've built several wheels myself without using anything other then Sheldon Browns website and a spoke wrench. I've also done other things that horrify wheel builders like reuse old spokes... The horror... Still riding these wheels today.

But I too am faced with a new project, rebuilding a 24 hole Zipp 303. That I will probably leave to the professionals. 32 3x is not too difficult imho but high performance straight pull on one side cross on the other and so on is.

[Mark McM]

Originally Posted by AngryScientist

sorry Mark, but i disagree with you on this one. a decent tension meter is going to be better, especially for non-professional wheel builders than plucking the spokes to get even tension.

No rim is perfect, so wheels typically don't have (or need) absolutely perfectly uniform tension. Most people can detect pitch frequency differences well enough to produce tensions that are more than even enough. Plus, balancing tension by tone is much faster and easier. Or at least so says the folks at Wheel Fanatyks, who produce one of the most accurate spoke tension meters available.

The standard technique used by many wheelbuilders is to use a tension meter on a few spokes to assess the current state of tension, and then balance the tension across the rest of the spokes by ear. Then repeat as necessary.

[David in Maine]

Mark,

If I were to build without a tensiometer, the question is how to set the baseline pitch/tension by feel and ear. When I've built 32 spoke wheels, I've compared the pitch to some other already built wheels and they have turned out fine. 32 3x is much more forgiving I would think.

David

[ergott]

Originally Posted by David in Maine

I've built quite a few sets of straightforward 32 and 36 spoke three cross wheels in my life. I'm planning a 24/28 spoke wheelset built around some Tune Mig/Mag hubs. Rim TBD, but considering Velocity quill, Boyd Altamont light, or Belgium plus. I weigh between 185 and 190 usually. What challenges if any should I face building a lower spoke count wheel. Can I tension these properly without a spoke tensiometer? What spokes should I use for a reliable, every day wheel.

Thanks all!

David

For your weight and that spoke count I'd consider the standard Altamont (not Lite) or the Astral Radiant. Both have some more material in them and I think will prove more durable over the years.

If your ear can distinguish a difference of a semitone in pitch you can outresolve most tensiometers like the Park or Wheelsmith. Absolute tension will elude you though.

[ergott]

Originally Posted by David in Maine

Mark,

If I were to build without a tensiometer, the question is how to set the baseline pitch/tension by feel and ear. When I've built 32 spoke wheels, I've compared the pitch to some other already built wheels and they have turned out fine. 32 3x is much more forgiving I would think.

David

Pitch is a function of wire thickness, tension, and length. The length has to be from the crossing (assuming spokes are interlaced) to the nipple, not the overall length (unless radial). If you run a basic calc you can get acceptably close. Quick google of density of SS gives about 8000kg/m3

https://www.cs.helsinki.fi/u/wikla/m.../wwwscalc.html

[David in Maine]

Thanks Eric and everyone,

Feeling like I might be getting in over my head with this! Thinking I'll just send the hubs off to a real wheel builder!

David

[kohagen]

Originally Posted by David in Maine

Thanks Eric and everyone,

Feeling like I might be getting in over my head with this! Thinking I'll just send the hubs off to a real wheel builder!

David

And we’ve got several good ones on this site.

[David in Maine]

Originally Posted by kohagen

And we’ve got several good ones on this site.

Indeed!