Phil Wood Headset feedback

[donevwil]

Originally Posted by R3awak3n

I am going to bet there are way more good experiences with CC than are bad experiences. I myself have owned more CC headsets than kings. They have always been great. CKs have been great too. hell I have had cheap ritcheys that have been great as well.

I agree on most counts. Old CCs from the S2 generation were hit and miss on quality, current 40s and 110s are excellent. CK should be boycotted for trying to pass off an O-ring as a compression ring just to avoid an active patent only to incorporate one into their design as soon as the patent lapsed.

Most pre-mature headset failures are due to poor frame prep or ham fisted mechanics.

[ColonelJLloyd]

Originally Posted by m4rk540

I have one on my pub bike which has lived in the backyard for about 6 years, slightly protected from the elements by a hedge. Rainfall last winter was higher than average and for the first time I began to notice corrosion and dulled finishes on the bike. But the headset looks as good as the day I installed it. And it's silky smooth. Tough to keep a modern polished headset looking mint, let alone a neglected one. I think I paid $45.

Legit testimony.

Originally Posted by donevwil

Most pre-mature headset failures are due to poor frame prep or ham fisted mechanics.

Heard.

[joosttx]

Originally Posted by R3awak3n

I am going to bet there are way more good experiences with CC than are bad experiences. I myself have owned more CC headsets than kings. They have always been great. CKs have been great too. hell I have had cheap ritcheys that have been great as well.

I know people that like them and they have worked for them. Others and me not so much. I have never heard someone not happy with a chris king headset.

[R3awak3n]

Originally Posted by joosttx

I know people that like them and they have worked for them. Others and me not so much. I have never heard someone not happy with a chris king headset.

fair enough. I am sure there is someone out there but I also never heard anyone not happy with a CK and they sure are quality head sets, no doubt

[donevwil]

Originally Posted by joosttx

I have never heard someone not happy with a chris king headset.

Well here you go.

[joosttx]

Originally Posted by donevwil

Well here you go.

Seriously you are the first. why?

[AngryScientist]

ahh, i understand now. i just looked at the website. there is indeed a stainless steel cup version of the headset as well as an alloy cup version (which is the one that comes in colors other than silver). that accounts for the weight difference mentioned early in the thread.

says that all parts are machined in house, and we know that phil wood bearings are some of the best in the business - so with those two things in mind, i would imagine there is no reason to expect that these are any less than excellent.

[bigbill]

I considered one for the Coconino but there wasn't good availability last summer. I ended up with a CC 110 and it's been just fine. All my other bikes have King including a 21 year old threaded one in the Merckx MX Leader.

[donevwil]

Originally Posted by joosttx

Seriously you are the first. why?

My opinion relates to their old threadless design that used an o-ring in the compression cap to avoid a patent. O-ring would wear grooves in soft steerers if not checked and cleaned/replaced periodically and ultimately the bearing contact surface of the compression cap (or whatever they called it) would develop a groove due to relative motion (compliant o-ring) causing the headset to loosen. Cap had to be replaced to get the headset tight. CK changed the design as soon as the patent lapsed, so they clearly knew they had been selling a sub-standard design for years simply to save a buck on an already overpriced unit.

Threaded and current threadless headsets are great, wonderful bearings that are press fit, excellent. I simply refuse to use anything from a company that knowingly sells an inferior product simply to save money just because they know the can (have a cult following).

[joosttx]

Originally Posted by AngryScientist

ahh, i understand now. i just looked at the website. there is indeed a stainless steel cup version of the headset as well as an alloy cup version (which is the one that comes in colors other than silver). that accounts for the weight difference mentioned early in the thread.

says that all parts are machined in house, and we know that phil wood bearings are some of the best in the business - so with those two things in mind, i would imagine there is no reason to expect that these are any less than excellent.

I would just like to hear some real world experience. My hesitation goes back to when Chris King started making BB. They (the BBs) had some issue with longevity. You can give all the accolades about CK that you are saying about Phil. However, switching from one part to another maybe harder than we think regardless of standards of quality.

[joosttx]

Originally Posted by donevwil

My opinion relates to their old threadless design that used an o-ring in the compression cap to avoid a patent. O-ring would wear grooves in soft steerers if not checked and cleaned/replaced periodically and ultimately the bearing contact surface of the compression cap (or whatever they called it) would develop a groove due to relative motion (compliant o-ring) causing the headset to loosen. Cap had to be replaced to get the headset tight. CK changed the design as soon as the patent lapsed, so they clearly knew they had been selling a sub-standard design for years simply to save a buck on an already overpriced unit.

Threaded and current threadless headsets are great, wonderful bearings that are press fit, excellent. I simply refuse to use any product from a company that knowingly sells an inferior product simply to save money just because they know the can (have a cult following).

makes sense.

[donevwil]

Originally Posted by joosttx

I would just like to hear some real world experience. My hesitation goes back to when Chris King started making BB. They had some issue with longevity. You can say all the accolades about CK that you are saying about Phil. However, switching from one part to another maybe harder than we think regardless of standards of quality.

I would be curious about this too. The one knock on PW BBs is their bearings not incorporating the most durable and effective seals out there. That would be important to me in a top of the line headset.

[joosttx]

Originally Posted by donevwil

I would be curious about this too. The one knock on PW BBs is their bearings not incorporating the most durable and effective seals out there. That would be important to me in a top of the line headset.

Well, I ordered one from the LBS today. And will have it installed in a week and half. I will let you know how it works. But for me, headset performance is all about longterm durability and robust-itude.

I guess you dont want to buy a lightly used black CK inset7 on the cheap? Ill even drive up to Petaluma and hand deliver it to you.

[joosttx]

looks pretty cool.

[AngryScientist]

sounds like you pulled the trigger, but for what it's worth, i had an opportunity to talk to a well respected framebuilder todayand handle some of the new white industries headsets, and they look good, from an aesthetic and engineering standpoint.