Mid-reach brake performance on dirt/gravel?

[zennmotion]

Originally Posted by p nut

ha! I have been selling off bikes. Currently at 3, but will be selling a dropbar mtb as well (and probably the if crown jewel). I’ve been eyeing a specialized crux to serve both road and gravel. But i’m a steel guy at heart. And every time i look at that kirk and similar, it tugs at me.
I do want something that will be fast and keep up with my friends on carbon bikes, so old frames are out of the question. As my legs are weak and heart feeble. Nice springy custom is probably the way to go.

By the way, all that talk and you don’t post a single picture?
:d

Not the best pictures, but I don't take many of the bike, usually more interested in the scenery or just riding Pictured are just 32mm tires, my sweet spot for local mixed surface rides (YMMV-- your mud may vary) and still feels like a traditional road bike, but 35s fit with fenders, 38s without fenders, with slower handling.

Originally Posted by zennmotion

20240107_135759(1).jpg

[p nut]

zenn, thwart - Yes! Those bikes are pretty sweet! Exactly what I’m imagining.

Rim brake wear: having mountain biked extensively during the Canti/v-brake era with mud and dirt galore caked on the rims and pads…. I’m not too concerned.

[ridethecliche]

My goodness Dave Kirk, that is freaking stunning!

Originally Posted by DeBike

Quoting from the above post; " I love the simplicity".

Indeed, my Poprad has long reach calipers to replace the cantilevers; along with 6400 bar end shifters, in friction mode, with 11 speed cassette. Just might make it my second 1X. A lot to be said for simplicity.
Forgot to say, I love the bike!

Wait... How did you replace the cantis with calipers?

[skouri1]

I have to say. Jumping back on my mis reach bike braking was nice and powerful . I've been riding v brakes through dirt with salmon pads and it's been soft. ... mis reach are excellent though I still think disc is better. Having said that. I can adjust my mis reach bike easily. Piece of cake.

[AngryScientist]

Originally Posted by David Kirk

Interestingly this type of bike has become the bulk of my framebuilding business. They are light and supple and have a sweet ride and there’s no noise or rotor rub or bleeding the brakes. I love the simplicity.

Makes perfect sense to me.

[XXtwindad]

Originally Posted by David Kirk

I use Velo Orange rim brakes and the 38mm Rene Herse tire and I love the combo. The tires measure an actual 39.5 mm wide mounted on my wheels. The frame and fork are both designed to place the pads just off the bottom of the slots to give the very most tire room.

Nearly every ride I do involves a mix of pavement and gravel (about 85% gravel by distance) and it works very well for me. I have yet to wish I had more tire or more brake. Some of the roads are super chunky and some are very smooth and the tire size is a great compromise.

I don’t seek out rides in the rain and even when I do get caught I have no issues with room….the soil here is typically gritty and not sticky so I have zero build up on the tire.

Interestingly this type of bike has become the bulk of my framebuilding business. They are light and supple and have a sweet ride and there’s no noise or rotor rub or bleeding the brakes. I love the simplicity.

dave

I absolutely agree with this sentiment. For road/rough road/light gravel, I don’t think discs are necessary. And the glory of mid-reach brakes is that they allow you to run larger tires (obviously)

But dirt, which is what we have here in the Bay Area, is another matter. I’m not sold on mid-reach for dirt. There’s no doubt in my mind that discs would be superior, it’s just a matter of how big the gap in performance would be.

[slowpoke]

Originally Posted by XXtwindad

But dirt, which is what we have here in the Bay Area, is another matter. I’m not sold on mid-reach for dirt. There’s no doubt in my mind that discs would be superior, it’s just a matter of how big the gap in performance would be.

Tire size should dictate your brake choice. E.g. 35mm tires with mid-reach brakes are great for road and dirt. But if you need wider tires, then you need other brakes.

[phishrabbi]

I'm not sure why everyone hates on canti studs. I had a bike built around Paul Mini Motos, which stop wonderfully, and I can fit at least 42mm tires.

[p nut]

Originally Posted by phishrabbi

I'm not sure why everyone hates on canti studs. I had a bike built around Paul Mini Motos, which stop wonderfully, and I can fit at least 42mm tires.

I love mini motos. Brakes as well as any discs I’ve tried. But they do take a bit more effort to set up than calipers.

Tektro 559’s (long reach), I cannot stand. I used them with flat bars, drop bars. Terrible.

Tektro 539’s were ok. Definitely not like short reach brakes. Wife has them on her Riv and they work very well with flat bar levers.

[XXtwindad]

Originally Posted by slowpoke

Tire size should dictate your brake choice. E.g. 35mm tires with mid-reach brakes are great for road and dirt. But if you need wider tires, then you need other brakes.

Interesting perspective. What Bay Area dirt trails do you ride mid-reach brakes on?

[slowpoke]

Originally Posted by XXtwindad

Interesting perspective. What Bay Area dirt trails do you ride mid-reach brakes on?

Most trails in the Headlands (everyone was riding them on 32mm slicks a decade ago): Coastal, Miwok, Old Springs, Marincello, Bobcat.

The gentler fire roads of Southern Tam are fine: ORRG, Old Stage, Deer Park Fire Rd, Diaz Ridge.

But for Northern Tam, I'd want wider tires.

My main point still stands: whatever terrain you ride on influences what tires you want, which then limits your brake choices for you.

[XXtwindad]

Originally Posted by slowpoke

Most trails in the Headlands (everyone was riding them on 32mm slicks a decade ago): Coastal, Miwok, Old Springs, Marincello, Bobcat.

The gentler fire roads of Southern Tam are fine: ORRG, Old Stage, Deer Park Fire Rd, Diaz Ridge.

But for Northern Tam, I'd want wider tires.

My main point still stands: whatever terrain you ride on influences what tires you want, which then limits your brake choices for you.

Ah. I see what’s happening. We’re not talking about tires. Or brakes. We’re talking about something more visceral: guts. I would not want to be hauling ass down the Coastal Trail on 32mm slicks. Or Old Springs. I don’t have the requisite innards.

[slowpoke]

We may be talking about different trails. Keep in mind there's (at least) three "Coast" trails in the area:

1. Coastal Trail from the roundabout to Bunker Road in Gerbode Valley
2. Coastal Trail / Coastal Fire Road between Tennessee Valley and Muir Beach
3. Coast View Trail from Pantoll to Muir Beach

My handling skills aren't good enough to run skinny tires on the third.

[EB]

All three of these trails are in my neighborhood and I've ridden them a LOT, including in the current decade. Probably gonna regret jumping into another disc vs. rim thread but oh well.

Originally Posted by slowpoke

We may be talking about different trails. Keep in mind there's (at least) three "Coast" trails in the area:

1. Coastal Trail from the roundabout to Bunker Road in Gerbode Valley

This one is fairly mellow. You can go much, much faster on it big tires, with disc brakes, though. There's also one section which NPS has dumped huge amounts of loose gravel on for some reason that gets dangerously drifty going downhill on skinny tires.

The bottom section is extremely rutted out, and on a skinny rim brake bike you'll be death-gripping all the way down it, but it's over quickly.

Originally Posted by slowpoke

2. Coastal Trail / Coastal Fire Road between Tennessee Valley and Muir Beach

This one is the absolute epitome of terrible Marin County fire roads - super steep and rutted with a surface dirt that's bad year round - loose and dusty in the dry season, peanut butter mud in the winter. Really, you're better off not riding it no matter what bike you have. Dias or Middle Green Gulch are much better ways to and from the same place.

You CAN ride it on rim brakes and skinny tires. I used to! It really sucks! Actually had a fairly bad crash here involving a bike with cantilevers and 38mm tires. If having a terrible time riding is your thing just because #SaveTheRimBrake then more power to you. The worst sections are between Tennessee Valley Trail and Coyote Ridge, and then from Coyote Ridge down to Muir Beach... oh wait, that's all the sections.

Originally Posted by slowpoke

3. Coast View Trail from Pantoll to Muir Beach


My handling skills aren't good enough to run skinny tires on the third.

Coastview is a mountain bike trail. Recently NPS has done some very questionable trail work on the lower section to try to make it more palatable to gravel bikes, but since they aren't good at their jobs the smoother sections are already eroding again. Riding up it on a gravel bike is doable - I used to it frequently on a rim brake bike too. But downhill, it's mountain bike terrain.

[XXtwindad]

Originally Posted by Eli Bingham

All three of these trails are in my neighborhood and I've ridden them a LOT, including in the current decade. Probably gonna regret jumping into another disc vs. rim thread but oh well.



This one is fairly mellow. You can go much, much faster on it big tires, with disc brakes, though. There's also one section which NPS has dumped huge amounts of loose gravel on for some reason that gets dangerously drifty going downhill on skinny tires.

The bottom section is extremely rutted out, and on a skinny rim brake bike you'll be death-gripping all the way down it, but it's over quickly.



This one is the absolute epitome of terrible Marin County fire roads - super steep and rutted with a surface dirt that's bad year round - loose and dusty in the dry season, peanut butter mud in the winter. Really, you're better off not riding it no matter what bike you have. Dias or Middle Green Gulch are much better ways to and from the same place.

Au contraire. This is a glorious, glorious trail. Among the most panoramic trails in the entire Bay Area. Yes, it lung-busting steep. (Which per my response above, I’d be freaked out going down). But man, the views. Switching my clips for hiking shoes…really hard to top this trail.

You CAN ride it on rim brakes and skinny tires. I used to! It really sucks! Actually had a fairly bad crash here involving a bike with cantilevers and 38mm tires. If having a terrible time riding is your thing just because #SaveTheRimBrake then more power to you. The worst sections are between Tennessee Valley Trail and Coyote Ridge, and then from Coyote Ridge down to Muir Beach... oh wait, that's all the sections.



Coastview is a mountain bike trail. Recently NPS has done some very questionable trail work on the lower section to try to make it more palatable to gravel bikes, but since they aren't good at their jobs the smoother sections are already eroding again. Riding up it on a gravel bike is doable - I used to it frequently on a rim brake bike too. But downhill, it's mountain bike terrain.

I always see people descending on gravel bikes when I’m there. Very impressive.