Runners in the bike lane -- Please explain the logic?

[Gummee]

Originally Posted by Jaybee

“On your left” seems to inspire people to jump to the left- the exact opposite reaction of what is intended.

I’ve stopped using words and started using a bell (spurcycle, which you can hear even above your ted talk or yacht rock or whatever is in your earbuds to insulate you from the world around you).

I've standardized on 'Passing!' Since we're here in the US of A, and most people on the MUTs drive, they move to their right.

All I got using 'on your left' was people moving left...

M

[benb]

I've always wondered where the "always walk/run against traffic, it's safer" thing came from.

I am guessing it didn't come from anything scientific or meaningful and instead comes from the same place "non cyclists on bikes" got their information about riding against traffic and bouncing back and forth between sidewalk/street being safer.

The other thing about cyclists or drivers complaining about runners in the street is runners are not defined as operating vehicles, cyclists & auto drivers are defined as operating vehicles under the law. Cyclists travel at a speed a lot closer to the auto traffic.

I don't have any conflict with runners in the street, there aren't many of them. The things that odd me out are the aforementioned running against traffic, the constant use of earbuds and/or looking at the smartphone, and the new behavior I've seen in the past 5 years where when you are approaching them and they are riding against traffic they decide to run out to their right into the path of the cars instead of to the left onto the shoulder. That one REALLY mystifies me as to why you would elect to go right into traffic possibly in a situation where you can't see the oncoming traffic instead of going left to the shoulder. They also block your path to move out into the road to avoid them.

[redir]

A nice bell is the best thing to get people to move or stand still on the MUP's. It's like a universal language, everyone understands it.

I kind of wish that the MUP's had the same rules of the road, pedestrians face traffic.

[wallymann]

Originally Posted by Macadamia

the more confusing thing to me is why they're always going against traffic too

children are taught that here in the US. well...they were.

i'm troubled by people riding bikes against traffic, i thought every child learned the rules of the road.

ride a bike with traffic, ambulate against traffic.

[Spdntrxi]

I don't mind if they use, but dont act like you own it... in other words run against traffic and get the hell out my way when I'm coming.

[Dave Ferris]

As a 65 yr old runner who's been at for about 42 years and has run around 65K miles, I'll add to the other posts -- yes the street is WAY more compliment then sidewalk/ cement.

The strand between Redondo and Manhattan Beach is probably the hardest surface on a runner's joints. We just just got back from a weekend in Ventura and ditto on the section around the Promenade.

Yes dirt trail is always a preference. Wood chip is actually first but with the exception of a short section in Manhattan Beach , doesn't exist in LA. Have to go up to Eugene, Or.

I always try to run facing traffic and always give bikes the right of way and a wide berth when I see them coming in advance. I've noticed over the years that many younger or newer runners are oblivious to everything.

I've had problems myself with younger runners wearing buds on the trails, running 2, 3, even 4 abreast on a fireroad oblivious to me coming up behind them on my Mtn bike. On dirt Mulholland or other sections in the Santa Monicas, I've literally had to slow to 2-3 mph and then give out a loud "behind you" to pass. It can be very dangerous on a Mtn. bike to slow down that much and have your tire get caught in a rut.

[djdj]

"Get off my [lawn, road, bike lane]!"

[unterhausen]

I do feel a little uncomfortable about this thread. I generally support people in their decision to walk or run. I suppose I might feel differently about this if I lived in an area where it was really hard to get out of the bike lane due to traffic. Never really had that problem, and if I do, I can figure a way around it. We do have large groups of joggers from either the high school or university, and they can be a pain due to their numbers and obliviousness. Even then, the inconvenience is relatively short-lived. We have a couple of bike paths I end up on occasionally that see a lot of walkers. They could be more considerate if they would consider they are on a bike path and might see a cyclist occasionally. I just go their speed until it's safe to pass. Other than the occasional upbraiding of the owner of an off-leash ill-behaved dog, I never say anything other than "passing"

I rode on a 600km brevet with a guy who would buzz pedestrians that weren't walking in accordance with his interpretation of the law. At least that's what I thought I saw. Maybe he just buzzed everyone, I don't know. I even saw him buzzing pedestrians on the Hudson River Walkway Bridge. It was mostly empty when we crossed it. Never wanted to scream at someone about their riding that bad since my racing days. This is exactly the same kind of behavior we hate in motorists, and for very good reason. The guy probably would buzz cyclists if he didn't approve of their riding, but the good news is he didn't own a car. When the ride was over, he called a ride service.

[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by jimcav

maybe the only thing close was an Air Craft Carrier deck.[/B]
jim

I hear ya brother..5 laps=1 mile, "I got my tan off the coast of Iran"..

[HenryA]

A lot of this is about predicability. More than just rules for the sake of rules, we need to have some expectation that others around us will behave in a more or less predictable fashion. Drive right, walk facing traffic, stop at stop signs, etc.

One of the things that will really upset road or sidewalk users is uncertainty about other users intentions. This is completely understandable and when you look at this problem from another user’s viewpoint it becomes easier to see what you need to do to fit in. Everyone needs clues about the expected behavior of other users so that they may conduct their own behavior safely.

When the clues aren’t there, people become frightened of the outcome. Often that fear is expressed as anger at the non-conforming user. Think about this the next time you are on the road and maybe wonder how your behavior might affect others.

The world is populated by a wide variety of people, not all are as sophisticated as most members here. Some are outright dumbasses. Know they are there and act accordingly. Most importantly don’t be one of them. Think about how your actions will be received by other road users. Be safe.

[jrsbike]

I don't mind the runners however I am perplexed by the number of evening/night runners I see who do not have reflective clothing or lights. Not uncommon in the Boston area. Scares the xxxx out of me when I come upon them suddenly.

[oldpotatoe]

I don't mind if they use, but dont act like you own it... in other words run against traffic and get the hell out my way when I'm coming.

"Get off my [lawn, road, bike lane]!"

Rich. Cyclists who argue and defend their right to use roadways arguing against pedestrians who have the same rights. Ha!

winter already??---->>>>

[jimcav]

Originally Posted by oldpotatoe

I hear ya brother..5 laps=1 mile, "I got my tan off the coast of Iran"..

That was my total time aboard, ran daily, ate many burgers and curly fries at the 24hr San Juan Grill, can't imagine a full tour on such a floating city. My rack was catapult adjacent--again, no idea how people adapt, but they must.

Beat Space Force!

[adamhell]

here in SF, we have the panhandle, which is a long-ish stretch of park that joins golden gate park to the wiggle (bicycle commute route). on the panhandle there is a bike path and a non bike path, except recently they designated the bike path as a runner's and walker's path also.

the bike path used to be designated as cyclists only, but so many people would run on it anyway i guess the city gave in. meanwhile, there is a perfectly good path with no cyclists on it where runners (and walkers, and dogs) could run with no risk of getting hit. i guess some people just hate things that make sense.

[RFC]

Originally Posted by benb

I've always wondered where the "always walk/run against traffic, it's safer" thing came from.

I am guessing it didn't come from anything scientific or meaningful and instead comes from the same place "non cyclists on bikes" got their information about riding against traffic and bouncing back and forth between sidewalk/street being safer.

The other thing about cyclists or drivers complaining about runners in the street is runners are not defined as operating vehicles, cyclists & auto drivers are defined as operating vehicles under the law. Cyclists travel at a speed a lot closer to the auto traffic.

I don't have any conflict with runners in the street, there aren't many of them. The things that odd me out are the aforementioned running against traffic, the constant use of earbuds and/or looking at the smartphone, and the new behavior I've seen in the past 5 years where when you are approaching them and they are riding against traffic they decide to run out to their right into the path of the cars instead of to the left onto the shoulder. That one REALLY mystifies me as to why you would elect to go right into traffic possibly in a situation where you can't see the oncoming traffic instead of going left to the shoulder. They also block your path to move out into the road to avoid them.

Basically, the logic is sound. If you can see oncoming traffic, you can jump out of the way if necessary.