Vintage Audio Part 8: EQ's and Dynamic Range Processors

[benb]

Originally Posted by Duende

Sound isolation/tracking techniques and the noise reduction processing you first mentioned are not the same thing, particularly in regards to the premise of your original post. Where you basically stated noise reduction is so inherent to audio production that it renders the remaining audio to be artificial.

I’ve literally either mixed, mastered, produced, or performed on hundred of records for numerous majors and independent record labels. Not to mention I was chief engineer at a high end recording studio for 14 years. And my experience could not be more different than yours on this matter.

Let’s just agree to disagree.

What are you actually doing in the studio to take that high gain metal amp and make the noise it produces not show up in the recording? Whether it's microphones that have a threshold, some trickery with the mixing sliders, something in a DAW.. it's not what you'd hear if you were in the room with the amp unless there was a loud drummer or something else in the room filling all the spaces so your ears were pounding and you couldn't hear the noise the amp makes.

Call it what you will... all the stuff you're doing mastering that record is stuff the consumer isn't really aware of.

Maybe the equipment is doing it and you don't even know it? What time period are you talking about? How was it done with a 100% analog tape mastering setup?

I mean you can kind of hear this stuff if you listen to early metal recordings that haven't been remastered. But back in the day you'd be listening to it on tapes and LPs that had a lot of their own inherent noise.

[marciero]

Originally Posted by Duende

This notion about de-noising however is simply not true. Noise reduction hit its peak in the late 80’s with Dolby SR and was used primarily for tape recorders. However, since then tape recorders have mostly switched to digital mediums, tape itself improved to have more headroom, and electronic amplifier technology has improved so much that the once INCREDIBLY expensive top of the line SR noise reduction units are worthless and you can’t give them away.

I have very limited recording experience, but I've done it on and off since the 90's-right at the digital transition to DAT, pro tools, etc. I dont recall noise reduction ever being a "thing" in the studios I was in. That doesn't mean it wasn't used as I wasn't privy to, or even interested in, everything the engineers did. I am mostly addressing the recording rather than the mastering. My feeling generally about processors that fix things is that the benefits are outweighed by the undesirable side effects. Even Dolby was like throwing a blanket over the speakers.

Even with the old technology it may not be a thing. As you know, two-inch tape is still alive and well, as are these ancient studio consoles that people restore, etc. I'm not current in any of this, but last I heard, direct-to-tape, analog everything, minimal processing, no knobs beyond 10 and 2 oclock, etc. is still popular. De-noising goes against that whole aesthetic.

[Spoker]

Nothing to contribute, except I always wondered why the low quality of a studio live concert straight to FM radio sounds so live.

[Duende]

Originally Posted by benb

What are you actually doing in the studio to take that high gain metal amp and make the noise it produces not show up in the recording? Whether it's microphones that have a threshold, some trickery with the mixing sliders, something in a DAW.. it's not what you'd hear if you were in the room with the amp unless there was a loud drummer or something else in the room filling all the spaces so your ears were pounding and you couldn't hear the noise the amp makes.

Call it what you will... all the stuff you're doing mastering that record is stuff the consumer isn't really aware of.

Maybe the equipment is doing it and you don't even know it? What time period are you talking about? How was it done with a 100% analog tape mastering setup?

I mean you can kind of hear this stuff if you listen to early metal recordings that haven't been remastered. But back in the day you'd be listening to it on tapes and LPs that had a lot of their own inherent noise.

To be honest, I would never claim to be the go to guy for high gain metal music (but I did do a few punk rock and industrial records in my day). If you're asking me personally what I would do for recording in this type of scenario. First, I'd make sure there was proper power isolation with good grounding. After that its fader moves and clever editing. For the soft moments, where any noise could actually be a factor... Just punch in with lower gain amplifiers.

For tapes back in the day, yes... it was Dolby NR. These days, the modern high bias tape formulas don't require it anymore. You can hit it 10db or more harder now and it's all good. Sure there's some diehards who still swear by the sound of Tape Noise Reduction, but it's really for the compander sound/effect it provides... not out of necessity.

[Duende]

Originally Posted by Spoker

Nothing to contribute, except I always wondered why the low quality of a studio live concert straight to FM radio sounds so live.

Because there's really no time for any production. Band is mic'd up on the spot, with minimal eq and compression where needed.. same settings often used for the entire setlist of songs performed.

Unlike a record where you can easily spend weeks/months on a single song... with layers of overdubs and sweeteners added in, mixed, remixed, etc...