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  #46  
Old 12-09-2019, 08:15 PM
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colker colker is offline
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that is called promoting american culture...something we used to do...other countries still do that actually....that aint the cia...it used to be called the culture department...we used to have some pride and a bit of money for that...
Yes. The art world center shifted from Paris to New York in the 50s. The US gained cultural hegemony. I read stories about the CIA involvement in this thing .... but it was the beginnings of the agency and it was more of an idealistic intelectual thing and not what it is today.
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  #47  
Old 12-09-2019, 08:18 PM
cash05458 cash05458 is offline
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new one to me...pollock as a tool via the cia?...it never had anything to do with intelligence...it was called promoting american aesthetics...as if we were worldy...and we had something to say of value...we no longer do really...but of course...

Last edited by cash05458; 12-09-2019 at 08:24 PM.
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  #48  
Old 12-09-2019, 08:20 PM
Fiertetimestwo Fiertetimestwo is offline
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Colker, cash,

You guys would probably appreciate MONA- Museum of Old and new Art in Hobart Tasmania. Amazing place- including a poop machine.

If you don't know about it and its founder , David Walsh, it is worth spending a while on the web reading up on it. Walsh was/is a strange genius who made a fortune in on-line gambling and has spent a good part of his money on this purpose built Museum- without government funding- a rarity in Australia.

MONA is credited with almost single-handedly transforming Hobart and the whole state economy.
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  #49  
Old 12-09-2019, 08:23 PM
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think you will dig this story Colker...via the market...so a friend of mine, charlie leduff, did a thing in china touring with robert frank the photographer...some big show...for a story in vanity fair etc or something...anyhow, called charlie and asked about getting Frank's addy and sending him some books to sign...he was a notorious guy who didn't sign...Frank used to live in Vermont as well...so packed up 5 copies of the americans and wrote bob a letter...told him I was a working mailman and needed a new lawn mower...a rider...so if he could sign the books I would be selling one but what the hell...Bob signed all of them and sent back...I sold one of them the next day on ebay for a grand and had my new riding mower sent over....wrote bob back...he loved it...the other 4 copies are for when my roof goes and for the wife...that's art...
Exactly: art is there to free ourselves from whatever misery we are stuck in. Be it financial or existential.
I heard some nice similar stories from Damien Hirst. I don´t know if i like his art but seems he is a good guy. He takes people in need under his wing and helps them w/ his work. Like he meets a gallerist in Mexico and the guy is broke. So Hirst gives him sales exclusivity and the guy goes to the top.
Artists can and should do it: value the fragile powerless and ignore the powerfull.
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  #50  
Old 12-09-2019, 08:27 PM
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new one to me...pollock as a tool via the cia?...it never had anything to do with intelligence...it was called promoting american aesthetics...as if we were worldy...and we had something to say of value...we no longer do really...that's fine...
Thing is: it wasn´t a two faced evil enterprize. The CIA was involved in things like transport, planning of the tour. It was about prommoting America. It seems like it wasn´t a facade for brutalizing anyone like the subsequent deals of the company in central america for example. I have a superficial knowledge of this thing but seems like it happened really.
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  #51  
Old 12-09-2019, 08:31 PM
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Colker, cash,

You guys would probably appreciate MONA- Museum of Old and new Art in Hobart Tasmania. Amazing place- including a poop machine.

If you don't know about it and its founder , David Walsh, it is worth spending a while on the web reading up on it. Walsh was/is a strange genius who made a fortune in on-line gambling and has spent a good part of his money on this purpose built Museum- without government funding- a rarity in Australia.

MONA is credited with almost single-handedly transforming Hobart and the whole state economy.
INteresting. A bit like a circus of bizarre, of the famous and the unknown.
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Old 12-09-2019, 11:38 PM
Hawker Hawker is offline
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Not sure about $120,000 for a banana, but I bought a car once for $4,000 that was a lemon.
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  #53  
Old 12-09-2019, 11:46 PM
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somewhat related......was in Santa Fe this past weekend and made sure we hit up Meow Wolf. Talk about a mind blowing art collective. I always favor art that leans more creative vs. shock value....and it has that in spades. Totally worth a trip just to see it if you haven't been. The Floozies concert there the same night was an added bonus.
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  #54  
Old 12-10-2019, 03:22 AM
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new one to me...pollock as a tool via the cia?...it never had anything to do with intelligence...it was called promoting american aesthetics...as if we were worldy...and we had something to say of value...we no longer do really...but of course...
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...n-1578808.html
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  #55  
Old 12-10-2019, 05:38 AM
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The article says the CIA acted in the manner of rennaissance princes. Not exactly: Borgias and Bentivoglios hired artists and had them work full time. Anyway... the european avant garde was highly politized. From Picasso to Aragon they flirted and connected w/ the communist party. Otoh Dali, the original midia shockster, and Duchamp were never communists. Both went to America. Duchamp went to live and work in NYC. Both abhorred abstract expressionism and that particular american avant garde; the euros had left optical dynamics and were working w/ symbols, double meaning of words, icons. There was a cultural war but not communist x capitalist culture; it was surrealism x abstractionism. Greenberg was the american critic connecting the painters who were on that bus to Europe. Their hegemony did not last long: another american movement, very influenced by Duchamp´s ready mades succeeded... minimalism. NYC was already the avant garde capital and Paris was gone forever.

Dali and his ant eater in Paris.
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Last edited by colker; 12-10-2019 at 05:49 AM.
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  #56  
Old 12-10-2019, 10:59 AM
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Beauty.
Classic Beuys

This performance art is another good one.

The "music" starts at about 2min if you are in a hurry to get to it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mr9YnBaZBgc
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