The official Campagnolo WRL discussion thread

[Mark McM]

Originally Posted by Coffee Rider

It is somewhat amusing that so many people get worked up over something that most wouldn't be buying regardless. I'm confident that most people who actually buy the group will ultimately be happy with it. Based on what I've read thus far, it sounds as though the new group shifts better than than EPS even though it doesn't look as nice. It's still a lot better looking than SRAM.

It is true that most people won't be buying this or any other high-end prestige group. But it could give an indication of the direction Campagnolo is going, and what might be expected in their other groups in the future. I think the reaction from many is to the direction Campagnolo is heading, more than this specific group.

[nmrt]

I think the only direction Campy is going is the direction of playing catch-up to Sram and Shimano. I say it with deep regret and sadness.

Originally Posted by Mark McM

It is true that most people won't be buying this or any other high-end prestige group. But it could give an indication of the direction Campagnolo is going, and what might be expected in their other groups in the future. I think the reaction from many is to the direction Campagnolo is heading, more than this specific group.

[Gwerziou]

Is the bolt circle on the new SR the same as the current Chorus?

[AngryScientist]

Originally Posted by Gwerziou

Is the bolt circle on the new SR the same as the current Chorus?

I believe that was answered here as a “No”

[jimcav]

Originally Posted by nmrt

I think the only direction Campy is going is the direction of playing catch-up to Sram and Shimano. I say it with deep regret and sadness.

campy was 1st with 12 and 13. Time will tell what happens obviously. I'm the wrong demographic to forecast anything. I want nothing more than to get back to my pre-long-COVID shape and ride a rim-braked steel bike 11-speed double up Mt Palomar, maybe with a compact crank if I fail to get fully back...

Other than the few fast riders I see along PCH or the Swami's group on wknds, most of the cyclists I see seem more likely to want "modern" comfort and simplicity--carbon bike, disc brakes, wider tires, more upright position.

IF I was to bet, I'd bet on the gravelization of road bikes: wider bars, 1x13 for the non-racer road bikes. I fear the e-bike trickle down as tech/battery improves will have a ubiquitous hill/headwind assist if not more on many bikes of the future. Seems like this wireless group is already for the additional torque of e-bike application, yes?

[Mark McM]

Originally Posted by AngryScientist

I believe that was answered here as a “No”

Which is unfortunate, as the 45/29 chainrings would have been ideal for the 123mm/96mm BCDs of the 12spd Chorus crank. So now Campagnolo concurrently has 3 different incompatible 12spd road crank BCDs. It's no wonder people have thrown so much shade on this new groupset, given this kind of unnecessary shenanigans.

[peanutgallery]

The pez tech guy is going to block you

Originally Posted by Mark McM

Which is unfortunate, as the 45/29 chainrings would have been ideal for the 123mm/96mm BCDs of the 12spd Chorus crank. So now Campagnolo concurrently has 3 different incompatible 12spd road crank BCDs. It's no wonder people have thrown so much shade on this new groupset, given this kind of unnecessary shenanigans.

[Charles M]

Originally Posted by Gwerziou

Is the bolt circle on the new SR the same as the current Chorus?

121/88mm BCD versus 123-96

[rain dogs]

I've been trying to stay out of this conversation because every conversation with a new Campagnolo product follows the same path > Those who cannot, or will not buy the product (especially given the cost) go out of their way to convince themselves of as many other reasons to dislike it as they can. Most of those being rooted in self-denial/sabotage toward objectivity.

This is common human psychology.

Case in point, the endless groaning about the Front Derailleur. You telling me, one of the above is notably more beautiful than the other? They are both ugly, because they are both wireless. Did you think it was going to look like Super Record '82? If you don't like it cool, you don't have to. But people were demanding this product and they got it. It's pretty much exactly what I thought it would be.

1. More expensive because of lower volume and Italian manufacturing.
2. Bulky because of wireless
3. And not the beautiful forms of yesteryear, because a Truck is not a sports car. Boots are not sandals. A couch is not a chair. The form is dictated by the function.

[merckx]

Originally Posted by rain dogs

I've been trying to stay out of this conversation because every conversation with a new Campagnolo product follows the same path > Those who would cannot, or will not buy the product (especially given the cost) go out of their way to convince themselves of as many other reasons to dislike it as they can. Most of those being rooted in self-denial/sabotage toward objectivity.

This is common human psychology.

Case in point, the endless groaning about the Front Derailleur. You telling me, one of the above is notably more beautiful than the other? They are both ugly, because they are both wireless. Did you think it was going to look like Super Record '82? If you don't like it cool, you don't have to. But people were demanding this product and they got it. It's pretty much exactly what I thought it would be.

1. More expensive because of lower volume and Italian manufacturing.
2. Bulky because of wireless
3. And not the beautiful forms of yesteryear, because a Truck is not a sports car. Boots are not sandals. A couch is not a chair. The form is dictated by the function.

Consider this a like button.

[oldpotatoe]

I think the only direction Campy is going is the direction of playing catch-up to Sram and Shimano. I say it with deep regret and sadness.

Originally Posted by jimcav

campy was 1st with 12 and 13. Time will tell what happens obviously.
Some snipped

Campagnolo was first to 9s, 10s, 11s, 12, and now 13s. Is shimano wireless? I guess they are playing 'catch up, eh?

Best in class disc brakes for Campag...I guess the others are playing 'catchup(particularly sram)...

How about wheels...how's the shimano and sram wheel set range doing? I guess playing 'catchup'.

Again, Campagnolo isn't shimano or(shudder) sram. Those two are beating each up over OEM every product cycle. Their product guys put on their helmets and flak vests and do battle like you wouldn't believe to get those OEM sales. Race to the bottom. Test to see which can 'bury' some POS something like a BB and have it not be noticed.

But like Greame said way better then me,

However, as others have said, a Seiko Kinetic and a Rolex Oyster Perpetual tell you the time just the same ... and I don't see Rolex rushing to offer a low cost version of the Oyster. No one "needs" a Rolex. No-one "needs" WL.

and Charles M notes, particularly well(I know two 'industry' people who lurk here...and they view a lot of PL as high comedy..and a little disappointing trying to 'battle' fake/interweb 'news'.)

But then that droning about any/every creation is what's driven nearly all industry people from Paceline. (then again, the ignore list is invaluable tool to address tools with no value...)

[Mark McM]

Does anyone know what material the rear derailleur is made from? To my eye it looks like it is mostly CFRP (injection molded plastic reinforced with micro-strands of carbon fiber). If so, this might explain why it looks so bulky - CFRP has a lower modulus than the aluminum and continuous strand carbon fiber that previous Campagnolo derailleurs were made from, so more of it is required for the same stiffness. Campy has used CFRP for decades in brake/shifter lever bodies, and in this application it makes sense. But in a derailleur it seems a a bit of a downgrade, and not really projecting the prestige image expected from a top level group.

[pinoymamba]

Originally Posted by Charles M

Virtually nobody on this forum regularly runs a 53-11 for any length of time...

Having only been to a dozen or so Athens and Sunny King's, Virtually nobody is running higher than 53-12 for the bulk of the race (they average within 1 MPH of each other every year baring weather difs and the pace sits under 30MPH, big surges and final sprint is (for most folks there) are covered in 53-11.

But then we really have to be reaching beyond reason, strictly for the sake of argument to have the discussion in the extreme terms in any case and all three manufacturers know it because they have LOADS of user data (4 if you consider FSA Kforce We viable, which it is).

Campagnolo pretty clearly define the thought process behind SRWireless gearing as caring more about the 99.9% of people that are buying and using their gear than the 0.01% of professionals operating on the rivet for any appreciable length of time.

In short, Campagnolo didn't (and don't) suffer fools that need to fixate on the irrelevant for the sake of argument as they created the products brought out at initial launch. These special people either can't or won't be Campagnolo's customer.

Daniel Holloway raced crits on 52/36 😂

[makoti]

Originally Posted by rain dogs

Case in point, the endless groaning about the Front Derailleur. You telling me, one of the above is notably more beautiful than the other? They are both ugly, because they are both wireless.

A friend I ride with frequently has Sram wireless. As I sit here, I can honestly say I have NEVER even noticed the FD. I don't know how big it is (but I assume it is bigger). I don't know how big the RD is. I know it doesn't work if you forget to charge it. I've seen these things at least two dozen times. I can't imagine that this is that much bigger that it's going to jump out at me if I see it in person. Is it so big that my leg will hit it? No? Then let's move on.

[rain dogs]

Originally Posted by makoti

A friend I ride with frequently has Sram wireless. As I sit here, I can honestly say I have NEVER even noticed the FD. I don't know how big it is (but I assume it is bigger). I don't know how big the RD is. I know it doesn't work if you forget to charge it. I've seen these things at least two dozen times. I can't imagine that this is that much bigger that it's going to jump out at me if I see it in person. Is it so big that my leg will hit it? No? Then let's move on.

Exactly.