carbon clinchers - whats the hot ticket ?

[Wayne77]

I have to be really careful about not evangelizing my feelings about road-tubeless too much because I have a lot of friends with spiffy new road tubeless setups and I just don’t want to be that buzz kill type of person. And all of us have selective risk-avoidance risk-acceptance approaches to life. And that’s ok. All that said, I’m going to proceed at risk of irritating people in the road-tubeless camp:

I know first hand what happens with a tubeless road tire when it burps. It is absolutely not the relatively benign event when a much lower pressure mtb or gravel tire burps. My first-hand experience: Descending the Galibier in France last July 25th (bike-cation). Rolled over a square edged object or seam in the road, velocity just enough to cause the front tire bead at the point of impact to unseat for a split second. BANG! (Tubeless road tire burping sounds like a gun) No more tire on the rim, down hard, cracked pelvis in 4 places, stuck in an Albertville hospital for 10 days, then 4 months of recovery. I will never ride a road tubeless set up ever. That’s just me though...I cant fault my other friends because they haven’t had my experience.

If you do go with a tubeless setup, tire pressure is absolutely critical, if they are slightly under pressure, a squared edged hit can easily unseat the bead. If that happens even for a split second...game over. Also critical is complying with wheel manufacturer tire compatibility specs. A given tubeless rim doesn’t play nice with every “tubeless tire” out there. Stay within manufacturer tire compatibility standards, don’t ride at lower pressures, and you’re probably ok.

PLEASE...if this rubs someone the wrong way, I don’t mean it to and I apologize. I just feel it’s a perspective that’s worth sharing with people exploring options.

[pdonk]

I would suggest staying away from mounting tubeless tires with tubes and test the tire /rim combo to make sure you can seat and unseat the tire.

I went from "tubeless easy"schwalbe pro 1, that I could never get to seat properly and broke tire levers trying to install and remove, to a set of GP 5000s that I can mount and dismount without any tools. Whole I slightly preferred the ride of the schwalbe tires, not worrying about flats makes up for it.

[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by 54ny77

^^ Agreed.

Are these wheels (rims) any good? Anyone have a view on the graphene vs. non-graphene brake track? I have a pair of smooth brake track wheels from Edge and stop pretty well with the black prince pads. Buddy of mine has the textured surface from Edge (Enve) on a newer set and they stop well too but make an annoying bzzzzzzzzz when soft braking to a stop. Drives me nuts! The BTLOS site says textured surface it cuts brake track heat in half, however. Kinda like a ventilated car disc vs. non-ventilated, I guess?

All I know I have ordered and built a handfull of their rims, rim brake and disc and their quality is very good, people riding them seem satisfied. Only drawback is shipping time..normally never shorter than 3 weeks. BT complete wheels or rims..both good deals.

[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by Wayne77

I have to be really careful about not evangelizing my feelings about road-tubeless too much because I have a lot of friends with spiffy new road tubeless setups and I just don’t want to be that buzz kill type of person. And all of us have selective risk-avoidance risk-acceptance approaches to life. And that’s ok. All that said, I’m going to proceed at risk of irritating people in the road-tubeless camp:

I know first hand what happens with a tubeless road tire when it burps. It is absolutely not the relatively benign event when a much lower pressure mtb or gravel tire burps. My first-hand experience: Descending the Galibier in France last July 25th (bike-cation). Rolled over a square edged object or seam in the road, velocity just enough to cause the front tire bead at the point of impact to unseat for a split second. BANG! (Tubeless road tire burping sounds like a gun) No more tire on the rim, down hard, cracked pelvis in 4 places, stuck in an Albertville hospital for 10 days, then 4 months of recovery. I will never ride a road tubeless set up ever. That’s just me though...I cant fault my other friends because they haven’t had my experience.

If you do go with a tubeless setup, tire pressure is absolutely critical, if they are slightly under pressure, a squared edged hit can easily unseat the bead. If that happens even for a split second...game over. Also critical is complying with wheel manufacturer tire compatibility specs. A given tubeless rim doesn’t play nice with every “tubeless tire” out there. Stay within manufacturer tire compatibility standards, don’t ride at lower pressures, and you’re probably ok.

PLEASE...if this rubs someone the wrong way, I don’t mean it to and I apologize. I just feel it’s a perspective that’s worth sharing with people exploring options.

YES IT IS....People reading your 'adventure' can decide. NO need to apologize. You had a tubeless setup, it failed, you got hurt..sounds like YOU didn't do anything wrong. When exploring this 'new' road bike tech, one needs to hear ALL the goods and 'others'..not just how it'll make the roses smell better in the morning...according to some..

[ntb1001]

Originally Posted by Wayne77

I have to be really careful about not evangelizing my feelings about road-tubeless too much because I have a lot of friends with spiffy new road tubeless setups and I just don’t want to be that buzz kill type of person. And all of us have selective risk-avoidance risk-acceptance approaches to life. And that’s ok. All that said, I’m going to proceed at risk of irritating people in the road-tubeless camp:

I know first hand what happens with a tubeless road tire when it burps. It is absolutely not the relatively benign event when a much lower pressure mtb or gravel tire burps. My first-hand experience: Descending the Galibier in France last July 25th (bike-cation). Rolled over a square edged object or seam in the road, velocity just enough to cause the front tire bead at the point of impact to unseat for a split second. BANG! (Tubeless road tire burping sounds like a gun) No more tire on the rim, down hard, cracked pelvis in 4 places, stuck in an Albertville hospital for 10 days, then 4 months of recovery. I will never ride a road tubeless set up ever. That’s just me though...I cant fault my other friends because they haven’t had my experience.

If you do go with a tubeless setup, tire pressure is absolutely critical, if they are slightly under pressure, a squared edged hit can easily unseat the bead. If that happens even for a split second...game over. Also critical is complying with wheel manufacturer tire compatibility specs. A given tubeless rim doesn’t play nice with every “tubeless tire” out there. Stay within manufacturer tire compatibility standards, don’t ride at lower pressures, and you’re probably ok.

PLEASE...if this rubs someone the wrong way, I don’t mean it to and I apologize. I just feel it’s a perspective that’s worth sharing with people exploring options.

Wow...that’s a scary description.

I have a set of tubeless road wheels, and my son does as well.

Did you have that happen because of too low of a pressure in the tire?? What pressure do you run in the tires?


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[Wayne77]

I’m guessing the pressure was closer to 90. The day prior I pumped them up to 100 psi, but that day we rolled out in a rush and I didn’t add any air. Not sure if that’s “lower end of acceptable range” or not but I’m pretty confident in saying that higher pressures should at least strengthen the bead/hook interface, raising the velocity threshold that presents the risk of a tire bead unseating momentarily with certain squared-edged impacts.

And I absolutely recognize that there’s an emotional-experience-fear based element here. On paper, a rational mind would say that if you stay within the parameters you’re good. For me though...life is fluid, it’s tough to guarantee I’ve checked all the boxes and I’d prefer to go with a setup with at least a little more margin of error. Sold on tubulars. Safest bet by far in situations where you loose all pressure on a fast descent. Again, that’s just me...

Originally Posted by ntb1001

Wow...that’s a scary description.

I have a set of tubeless road wheels, and my son does as well.

Did you have that happen because of too low of a pressure in the tire?? What pressure do you run in the tires?


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[ntb1001]

Originally Posted by Wayne77

I’m guessing the pressure was closer to 90. The day prior I pumped them up to 100 psi, but that day we rolled out in a rush and I didn’t add any air. Not sure if that’s “lower end of acceptable range” or not but I’m pretty confident in saying that higher pressures should at least strengthen the bead/hook interface, raising the velocity threshold that presents the risk of a tire bead unseating momentarily with certain squared-edged impacts.

And I absolutely recognize that there’s an emotional-experience-fear based element here. On paper, a rational mind would say that if you stay within the parameters you’re good. For me though...life is fluid, it’s tough to guarantee I’ve checked all the boxes and I’d prefer to go with a setup with at least a little more margin of error. Sold on tubulars. Safest bet by far in situations where you loose all pressure on a fast descent. Again, that’s just me...

I think 90 is good...with tubeless, you should be able to ride even lower pressures than that.

I usually keep mine in the 90-100 range as well. No mountain descents around here...just some normal hills.
I would probably want to stick with tubulars as well after your experience....it would certainly freak me out.


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[adrien]

For the OP -- if you're concerned about changing tires, you need to think not only about the rim but the tire.

I have Enve 4.5s, which I got after trying Boyds, Novembers, Zipps, Enve and Campy Boras. I like the Boras, but the Enve felt much more lively. The others all felt a little "dead" to me, so I got Enves. Haven't been disappointed at all.

However...some tires are nearly impossible to roll on by hand (for some reason GP 4000s were really tight, as were Specialized Turbos). Others roll on very easily. I currently ride Pirelli P7s and can easily roll them on by hand.

[54ny77]

Anyone else out yonder riding BTLOS wheels/rims? If so care to share your specific experiences?

[R3awak3n]

Originally Posted by Wayne77

I’m guessing the pressure was closer to 90. The day prior I pumped them up to 100 psi, but that day we rolled out in a rush and I didn’t add any air. Not sure if that’s “lower end of acceptable range” or not but I’m pretty confident in saying that higher pressures should at least strengthen the bead/hook interface, raising the velocity threshold that presents the risk of a tire bead unseating momentarily with certain squared-edged impacts.

And I absolutely recognize that there’s an emotional-experience-fear based element here. On paper, a rational mind would say that if you stay within the parameters you’re good. For me though...life is fluid, it’s tough to guarantee I’ve checked all the boxes and I’d prefer to go with a setup with at least a little more margin of error. Sold on tubulars. Safest bet by far in situations where you loose all pressure on a fast descent. Again, that’s just me...

Originally Posted by ntb1001

I think 90 is good...with tubeless, you should be able to ride even lower pressures than that.

I usually keep mine in the 90-100 range as well. No mountain descents around here...just some normal hills.
I would probably want to stick with tubulars as well after your experience....it would certainly freak me out.


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I am sorry you got hurt Wayne77, that really sucks man. Glad you are fine.

I think there is a reason why a lot don't recommend taking tubeless pressures that high, a lot of tire manufacturers say no more than 60/65psi on tubeless. However there are some that don't say that. Personally I would not go over 65. I am not saying that it is why that happened, it might have happened at 65 as well but I think the more pressure and you hit something the more likely tire will burp (too low pressure and this might also happen?).

Anyways, I will not run tubeless on anything under a 35mm tire. I also feel like there is no benefit to road tubeless, at least where I ride. I have maybe 1/2 flats a year and no benefit running tubeless on super low pressures on road.



On topic...


I now have a bunch of miles on my fulcrum quattros and are these nice. The brake track is fantastic, I am blown away, I have not wished to have my alloy track back, they just brake will (dry, have not used them in rain), with the campy red pads, they are really good. As with most thinks campy makes, constructions is fantastic, they look good and even though maybe not the ligghtest or fastest, theya re perfect all rounders.

[djg21]

Originally Posted by Caballero

I'm a tubular rider, have been for going on 21 years this year but have only ever ridden carbon tubulars and clinchers in aluminum.

However, Due to an accident a couple of years ago (which some here might remember) and the after effects and weakness in my hand I'm unable to remove a tub in the event of a flat (which happened yesterday). after a lot of blood, sweat and cursing i got it changed after 40 minutes ! but it made me decide to get some clinchers for everyday.

So, whats the current favorite for Clincher, Rim brake, around 25-35mm. not interested in tubeless.

Id love some FSE 35 Carbon ti but that seems a stretch now as theyve gone under !

Thinking -

Enve 2.2/3.4
Ksyrium pro carbon sl/ cosmic pro carbo sl
bora wto (running 9150 di2)
fulcrum speed 40c

what else is out there ?

I’m looking hard at FLO wheels for my new gravel build. The direct sales business model keeps the prices reasonable and they seem to be getting really good reviews. https://flocycling.com/

I have a set of Zipp 808 Firecrests built on a Zipp front hub and Powertap G3 rear hub that need a home if you want something Aero and fancy. Send me a PM if you are interested.

[scoobydrew]

Originally Posted by 54ny77

Anyone else out yonder riding BTLOS wheels/rims? If so care to share your specific experiences?

Not road, but I just mounted a set of BTLOS 29er mountain bike wheels (WM-i29A 29mm internal).

I haven't had a chance to ride them on actual trails, but the wheels and rims themselves feel solidly built. I know oldpotatoe has some good words to say about the rims. Folks on the WeightWeenie forums and MTBR seem to also have positive experiences.

I've had good experiences with their customer service too (asking questions about the wheels, build, shipping method).

[pdmtong]

Originally Posted by Wayne77

I have to be really careful about not evangelizing my feelings about road-tubeless too much because I have a lot of friends with spiffy new road tubeless setups and I just don’t want to be that buzz kill type of person. And all of us have selective risk-avoidance risk-acceptance approaches to life. And that’s ok. All that said, I’m going to proceed at risk of irritating people in the road-tubeless camp:

I know first hand what happens with a tubeless road tire when it burps. It is absolutely not the relatively benign event when a much lower pressure mtb or gravel tire burps. My first-hand experience: Descending the Galibier in France last July 25th (bike-cation). Rolled over a square edged object or seam in the road, velocity just enough to cause the front tire bead at the point of impact to unseat for a split second. BANG! (Tubeless road tire burping sounds like a gun) No more tire on the rim, down hard, cracked pelvis in 4 places, stuck in an Albertville hospital for 10 days, then 4 months of recovery. I will never ride a road tubeless set up ever. That’s just me though...I cant fault my other friends because they haven’t had my experience.

If you do go with a tubeless setup, tire pressure is absolutely critical, if they are slightly under pressure, a squared edged hit can easily unseat the bead. If that happens even for a split second...game over. Also critical is complying with wheel manufacturer tire compatibility specs. A given tubeless rim doesn’t play nice with every “tubeless tire” out there. Stay within manufacturer tire compatibility standards, don’t ride at lower pressures, and you’re probably ok.

PLEASE...if this rubs someone the wrong way, I don’t mean it to and I apologize. I just feel it’s a perspective that’s worth sharing with people exploring options.

I saw this some years ago at sea otter when catherine pendrel (3x UCI womens XC champ) was drilling it at the front in the short track race and bang, her race was over. square edge hit and lower pressure (racers right on the edge). thank you for sharing wayne. as bad as it was, glad it was not worse.

[phishrabbi]

How about a Kinlin deep section rim?

[alexsteinker]

I'm on some Novatecs which are at the lower price range of the spectrum. I think carbon clinchers have gotten VASTLY better since the early days. Although, I'm using disc brakes so no heated stress on brake tracks etc.

I don't typically think performance though when I see my wheels. They look nice, they are deeper than alloy, they sound pretty cool and they are WIDEEE for big boy tires. Heavier than most alloy too. They just feel cool haha.


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