Rivendell saved for now...

[Burnette]

Originally Posted by FlashUNC

Just as you asked for people not to imply things you didn't say, that street goes both ways.

The point many, including myself, are making is that the sideline stuff increasingly seems like the front and center stuff.

Rather than selling really good bikes, it's some either ill-executed attempt at a lifestyle brand, or just Grant's personal interests expressed as a business. Which, yes, that's basically all Riv has largely ever been, but when the #1 item listed in the holiday gift guide is an axe, or there's a couple thousand words on the blog extolling soap varietals, something has clearly gone pear-shaped in the approach to the market.

Again, the kind of riding that Grant and team has espoused for decades is THE trend in the industry, and instead of making hay while the sun shines, they're asking folks to buy gift cards to help replenish a reserve that needs to be deeper than it should be, a year after holding out the hat to very clearly keep the lights on.

It's not that they're not Surly. Far from it. They should be eating Surly's lunch. And owning a segment they've basically created with really kick-ass bikes and kick-ass accessories. What's there today by any external expression is not that.

If anything, what you construe as "they're not Surly" is some exasperation from those who recognize Grant and Riv's work for the visionary stuff it is, and that the guys who got it before anyone else now seem to be badly missing the plot for reasons that escape a lot of us, even with all this radical transparency.

This pretty much sums it up. They lost focus, the market came to their style of riding and instead of making money are asking for handouts. I like this write up.

[raygunner]

Everytime there's an old rivendell jersey on eBay it fetches well over $100.

I emailed recently (after Hail Mary but before this dust up) and was told there are no plans for such per riv.

Obviously there's customers for such an item (like the orange Ram) but their site is littered with axes and bandannas. Obviously there's a disconnect and they're forced to pass the hat.

And speaking of which, what happened to the $215k (or whatever was the final number)?

[R3awak3n]

Originally Posted by raygunner

Everytime there's an old rivendell jersey on eBay it fetches well over $100.

I emailed recently (after Hail Mary but before this dust up) and was told there are no plans for such per riv.

Obviously there's customers for such an item (like the orange Ram) but their site is littered with axes and bandannas. Obviously there's a disconnect and they're forced to pass the hat.

And speaking of which, what happened to the $215k (or whatever was the final number)?

Shouldn't it be pass the bandana?

[AngryScientist]

This thread is getting very close to being shut down.

Please, go ahead and discuss the topic, but refrain from personal jabs at each other. there is really no reason to go there.

i find this to be a good topic, and interesting insight to the industry of 2019, so let's keep it civil.

i have a few thoughts i will share in a bit, but for now, let's keep it to the topic, not poke each other. we're all [virtual] friends here.

[fourflys]

Originally Posted by Joe Remi

I see no evidence that the bikes themselves aren't selling.

Then Grant needs to place larger orders for bikes or find a different supplier in Taiwan as others have done for a better margin... as far as BIKE parts, I assume many Riv frames are sold with all or most parts to build it (I had them build mine). So is the issue Grant is stocking a lot of stuff that folks just aren't wanting then?

Raygunner has a good point on the jersey... if folks are searching ebay and folks like him as asking, why is there no plans to stock one? I'm certain they could find a supplier...

bottom line is I think buyers aren't finding value in Riv products like they once did... I agree with others that they may be a victim of their own previous ideas that took off and passed them buy...

[Burnette]

I think it's a good topic too. It's the story of many a bike shop, except this one is more public and has some interesting twists. I too wonder how it will play out going forward.

[Joe Remi]

Originally Posted by fourflys

Then Grant needs to place larger orders for bikes or find a different supplier in Taiwan as others have done for a better margin... as far as BIKE parts, I assume many Riv frames are sold with all or most parts to build it (I had them build mine). So is the issue Grant is stocking a lot of stuff that folks just aren't wanting then?

Raygunner has a good point on the jersey... if folks are searching ebay and folks like him as asking, why is there no plans to stock one? I'm certain they could find a supplier...

I don't think 'parts per frame' sales would account for enough parts sales to be considered "good". Plus I and a lot of other folks I'm aware of have purchased Riv framesets for a stash of parts we already own.

[peanutgallery]

That's my deepest and darkest secret
It's vegan and Himalayan...and I'll never sell it

Originally Posted by Burnette

It's not fascination, it's just funny. And sad. Rivendell can't afford quirky sidelines.

Again, you seem to be taking it personally and you really shouldn't. Rivendell made some bad decisions and they are still bleeding money after a handout.

Listen, if ski merchant peanutgallery can't pay his bills and begs for money while he has ten cases of mustache wax going out of date in the back, I'll be the first to rib him about it.

[Burnette]

Originally Posted by peanutgallery

That's my deepest and darkest secret
It's vegan and Himalayan...and I'll never sell it

They always horde the good stuff!

[arazate]

[/QUOTE]It's not that they're not Surly. Far from it. They should be eating Surly's lunch. And owning a segment they've basically created with really kick-ass bikes and kick-ass accessories. What's there today by any external expression is not that.

If anything, what you construe as "they're not Surly" is some exasperation from those who recognize Grant and Riv's work for the visionary stuff it is, and that the guys who got it before anyone else now seem to be badly missing the plot for reasons that escape a lot of us, even with all this radical transparency.[/QUOTE]

Sorry, but not comparing apples to apples, Surly is owned by behemoth QBP. Black Mountain comparisons run truer.

[Peter B]

Nm.

[raygunner]

When this thread was started numerous Paceline members not only contributed but laid out some solid fundamentals to improve the business.

I can't recite all of them but they ranged from expensive Bay Area location, pairing back the frame offerings, number of employees, etc.

I think everyone was pulling for them, as there's a ton of Riv fans here, myself included.

After the Hail Mary, were there any changes to shore up the business?

Maybe Joe knows as he seems to have a greater insight.

It seems like they keep veering away from offering things that people wanted. They don't have a Saluki but now they have a Clem Smith. They revamped the Atlantis and it honestly lacks the style it one has (curved tubes, anyone?).

And if Waterford got too expensive why not partner with another domestic framebuilder?

[54ny77]

Wait, it this a thread about Serotta?

[arazate]

I'm a fan, and own a few of their earlier designs. Regarding their move overseas, could be that they are trying to maximize margins where they can. Folks will pay a premium for Rivendell, within reason. Building here in States would price them out of the market.

[charliedid]

Originally Posted by arazate

I'm a fan, and own a few of their earlier designs. Regarding their move overseas, could be that they are trying to maximize margins where they can. Folks will pay a premium for Rivendell, within reason. Building here in States would price them out of the market.

Are they all built in Taiwan now? I've lost rack over the past 10 years.