OT: 2018 MLS Cup - Page 2

echappist · #16 12-11-2018, 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by martl

if that's the case, they're aiming low. PL is currently the top EU league with the worst stadium atmosphere. ever. Ban on standing up, x-thousands of quid for a season ticket, 20+ quid a match to watch it on the telly. But hey, we get to see Drogba. And Fellaini. And Lukaku.

how much are BVB tickets, out of curiosity? Would love to go to one of their matches (whether or not the American on the team is still playing for them). Airfare would be the main obstacle, probably fly into Frankurt or Schiphol and take the train over.

Ozz · #17 12-11-2018, 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlashUNC

MLS as a league doesn't deserve the fan support that it's teams get.

??

Quality of play or something else?

martl · #18 12-12-2018, 02:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by echappist

how much are BVB tickets, out of curiosity? Would love to go to one of their matches (whether or not the American on the team is still playing for them). Airfare would be the main obstacle, probably fly into Frankurt or Schiphol and take the train over.

BVB is starting at 7,40€ (kids) most affordable regular ticket is 17,40€ (adult, standing terrace). Most expensive regular ticket would be 56,60€. See https://www.bvb.de/Tickets/Sitzplan "Tageskarten". The american may be at Chelsea faster than you can say "pulisic", though, so better be fast!

FlashUNC · #19 12-12-2018, 09:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ozz

??

Quality of play or something else?

The league structure, the pay scale, the lack of promotion and relegation, all of it really. What happened in Columbus with the league's blessing, for on example, is beyond gross.

brownhound · #20 12-12-2018, 09:34 AM

^^^
So long as a league is made up of franchises (or owner-operator operations) there will be teams that move or threaten to move. What happened in Columbus is not as bad as what happened to the Rams moving to LA from St. Louis, and I was never a St. Louis Ram fan.

If you're saying that the structure of the league doesn't deserve support, then I suppose the vast majority of teams don't get Atlanta United support. Go to any of the original 9, and you'll see a weaker ownership structure and tepid fan support. Frankly, Columbus is a perfect example.

I'm a soccer fan and think it's better live than on TV, so I enjoy watching MLS. It isn't Champions League. But it's closer to Champions League than any NCAA conference is to NBA or NFL, and those are sufficiently popular. And far more odious than MLS.

Ozz · #21 12-12-2018, 09:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlashUNC

The league structure, the pay scale, the lack of promotion and relegation, all of it really. What happened in Columbus with the league's blessing, for on example, is beyond gross.

I am not familiar with what happened in Columbus...typical stadium "hold public hostage" funding issue?

As for the rest....I'm just glad there is a pro soccer league in US/Canada. Issues are no different than any other professional sport from what I can see....but I don't look too closely. The saying about watching sausage being made comes to mind.

Cheers.

brownhound · #22 12-12-2018, 09:40 AM

The Cup Final itself, looked fun and rollicking. It'll be interesting to see if Atlanta can keep the party going.

For true passion, go see a match in Argentina. Dortmund might be the best in Germany, which is usually the best in Europe. But Argentina is next level crazy. The EPL is like going to an NFL game.

brownhound · #23 12-12-2018, 09:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ozz

I am not familiar with what happened in Columbus...typical stadium "hold public hostage" funding issue?

Kind of.

The founding family -- the Hunts, of the KC Chief Hunts -- sold the team to Anthony Precourt. The contract allegedly contained various clauses that made moving the team difficult, but with a carve out for moving it to Austin. After a couple of years, Precourt announced he's moving the team to Austin. Now there are competing plans in Austin and Columbus, of course.

But in contrast with the Rams, there was no league orchestrated move to ignore the league rules for moving a team. Just a fishy contract, which suggested the fix was in.

FlashUNC · #24 12-12-2018, 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brownhound

^^^
So long as a league is made up of franchises (or owner-operator operations) there will be teams that move or threaten to move. What happened in Columbus is not as bad as what happened to the Rams moving to LA from St. Louis, and I was never a St. Louis Ram fan.

If you're saying that the structure of the league doesn't deserve support, then I suppose the vast majority of teams don't get Atlanta United support. Go to any of the original 9, and you'll see a weaker ownership structure and tepid fan support. Frankly, Columbus is a perfect example.

I'm a soccer fan and think it's better live than on TV, so I enjoy watching MLS. It isn't Champions League. But it's closer to Champions League than any NCAA conference is to NBA or NFL, and those are sufficiently popular. And far more odious than MLS.

MLS is not a league of franchises. It's a single entity where each "team" is run by one of the league's respective investors. There are no individual franchisees. There's only MLS at the end of it all.

It's why there's no promotion, relegation, or any spending outside MLS' cost controls. It's a simulacrum of a soccer league, not an actual one.

Ozz · #25 12-12-2018, 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brownhound

... Just a fishy contract, which suggested the fix was in.

Sounds a lot like what happened to the Supersonics moving to OKC....sux.

Back on topic....the league has only been around for 25 years, and every other attempt at pro soccer in USA/Canada failed.....my guess is that they (MLS Mgmt) needed to do something different to get the league financially viable...shared ownership, slow expansion, etc.

There is no way they could be EPL, La Liga, Bundesliga, etc over night...probably not in 50 yrs. Those leagues have virtually no competition for fans, vs the NBA, NFL, NHL, and MLB.

The fans in the cities where there are teams seem to support them well....the whole Vancouver/Seattle/Portland rivalry is great

brownhound · #26 12-12-2018, 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlashUNC

MLS is not a league of franchises. It's a single entity where each "team" is run by one of the league's respective investors. There are no individual franchisees. There's only MLS at the end of it all.

It's why there's no promotion, relegation, or any spending outside MLS' cost controls. It's a simulacrum of a soccer league, not an actual one.

Right, they're "owner-operators" or "owner-investors" - the League has used differing terms. It's a legal difference, but functionally it's the same. For example, Merritt Paulson "operates" the Timbers and Stan Kroenke "operates" the Rapids - they make all fundamental decisions about the teams. If they decided to move elsewhere, they almost assuredly could. If they couldn't, then Precourt couldn't move the Crew.

Is your criticism the league - i.e., the single-ownership structure - or the rules - e.g., lack of pro/rel? The spending caps are, shall we say, flexible.

livingminimal · #27 12-12-2018, 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fa63

73,019, officially. I have been to several matches there, with similar attendance numbers, and the atmosphere is unbelievable.

Arent they in the top 10 (or 15?) of football attendance globally?

FlashUNC · #28 12-12-2018, 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brownhound

Right, they're "owner-operators" or "owner-investors" - the League has used differing terms. It's a legal difference, but functionally it's the same. For example, Merritt Paulson "operates" the Timbers and Stan Kroenke "operates" the Rapids - they make all fundamental decisions about the teams. If they decided to move elsewhere, they almost assuredly could. If they couldn't, then Precourt couldn't move the Crew.

Is your criticism the league - i.e., the single-ownership structure - or the rules - e.g., lack of pro/rel? The spending caps are, shall we say, flexible.

All of it. It's a soccer league with a post-season tournament to determine the league winner, with no promotion/relegation, cost-control that suppresses both player wages and the quality of the on-field product (given the league ownership structure, there's no real bidding wars for free agents and unsigned players in MLS). The average Premier League club spends more on player salary than the entire MLS does as an entire league.

The actual soccer is maybe 5th on the priority list for MLS as a league.

fa63 · #29 12-12-2018, 11:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by livingminimal

Arent they in the top 10 (or 15?) of football attendance globally?

I think average home attendance for ATL United in 2018 was ~53,000. Not sure where it puts them globally, but it is a pretty big number and I wouldn't be surprised if they were indeed in the top 15.

echappist · #30 12-12-2018, 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fa63

I think average home attendance for ATL United in 2018 was ~53,000. Not sure where it puts them globally, but it is a pretty big number and I wouldn't be surprised if they were indeed in the top 15.

53,000 is larger than the capacity of Stamford Bridge and White Hart Lane. And with the running joke of the E(mp)tihad, probably higher than average home attendance there, as well

ETA: just slightly below average attendance at Emptihad; Emirates is quite a bit larger