OT - What's going on in France

[verticaldoug]

Originally Posted by MikeD

Well, who do you think provides the jobs? Tax corporations more than the rest of the world does, and they'll move out of the country!


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actually that statement is not true. Because of the crazy US tax code, even though corporations have what appears a high nominal rate, the effective rate they pay is much much lower. Companies always report effective tax rate with quarterly earnings and these are shockingly low.

so even a low effective tax rate has not stopped them from moving production and other things abroad.

I find it funny when people say corporations are people with rights. Well, the whole purpose of a corporation is a limited liability company to protect the owners, so why should it have all the rights of a person? In fact, I'd be happy for corporations to experience my rights as a US Citizen. After I pay my foreign taxes, if those happen to be lower than my US taxes, I get to pay the difference I would owe in the US.

So let's tax Apple, Starbucks, Facebook, Google, like an American citizen. They want to be treated like people too... So after they avoid and reduce their taxes offshore using double dutch etc etc, they can pay the balance up to their US rate. Oh joy

[verticaldoug]

Originally Posted by MikeD

Another perspective on Germany https://www.google.com/amp/s/foreign...hypocrite/amp/

In 2017, 40.3% of Germany's electricity was generated from coal!

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In 2013, it was 45%. So it's going down?

[Ozz]

Originally Posted by 93KgBike

We could use the planet's EM field as an induction generator...

Wasn't that Nikola Tesla's idea?

[YoKev]

My wife and I are in the Alsace region right now, and yesterday. we crossed the border at the Rhine River on our way from Tubingen.

We drove through two yellow vest encampments. The first looked like they were getting a tire fire ready, and the second we had to do a slalom course around tires around a roundabout and their pallet house village. Or, maybe they were readying for a good ol pallet fire.

Almost every car has a yellow vest displayed prominently on the dashboard.

Right now though their protest is being overshadowed by the manhunt for yesterday’s terrorist Christmas market shooter. What a mess.

[daker13]

Originally Posted by cloudguy

Not sure if I'm paraphrasing correctly, but my economist friend once told me that Keynes thought people in the future would work less and enjoy more leisure time, what with advances in efficiency, technology etc. So far that obviously hasn't panned out, but perhaps the robot revolution will force this leisure time upon us...more time for riding bikes and playing golf, at least until the robots kill us all.

Also pointed out by Marx... Technology is supposed to free up people's time, and yet the more technology we have, the more people work.

[livingminimal]

Originally Posted by daker13

Also pointed out by Marx... Technology is supposed to free up people's time, and yet the more technology we have, the more people work.

because capitalism.

technology is primarily harnessed as a way to produce more capital for the bosses, not recreation for the worker.

[HenryA]

Not so sure about freeing up people’s time. Waking up in the morning and having purpose in life might involve a job or some kind of work.

The downside of technology might be that people are more under employed than before. Or not employed at all. What I know of human nature is that having a reason to work and especially to benefit from your work is pretty much hard wired in people. It builds self respect and respect from others.

In caveman terms, a person who goes out and kills something and brings it back to the clan will enjoy high status in the clan.

I think this is modern France’s “let them eat cake moment” and its not working out so well for the “leadership” class. The challenge to leadership now-a-days is to make sure that all who contribute get a cookie. No cookies equals revolution.

[cloudguy]

Originally Posted by HenryA

Not so sure about freeing up people’s time. Waking up in the morning and having purpose in life might involve a job or some kind of work.

Who said anything about not working? But what about a 6-hour work day, instead of 8? For that matter, who came up with 8 to begin with and why do we all accept it as the definition of full time?

[Black Dog]

Originally Posted by cloudguy

Who said anything about not working? But what about a 6-hour work day, instead of 8? For that matter, who came up with 8 to begin with and why do we all accept it as the definition of full time?

Well, Unions came up with the 8 hour work day and the 5 day work week and minimum 2 weeks of vacation. That was to replace the 10-12 hour workdays that happened 6 days a week all year long. Dam Unions!!!

Americans, and Canadians, to a slightly lesser degree, have an attitude that we should all be grateful for what little time off we have and that we should work ourselves to death for the company. How else would we be able to be productive? It is total BS and accepting this is a form of self indentured existence. However, the desire for stuff, over experience drives us in this direction. Spend time in countries where people value time and each others company over stuff and you will see some more happiness and fulfilment. Funnelling all wealth to a small number of people as we are doing all over the world is not going to end well for anyone, rich or poor. Unfortunately the people who make the rules are the same people who win under these rules, every time.

[cloudguy]

Originally Posted by Black Dog

Well, Unions came up with the 8 hour work day and the 5 day work week. That was to replace the 10-12 hour workdays that happened 6 days a week.

Yeah, that makes sense. My guess is that most desk jockeys (myself included) only work 6 hours a day anyway, the remaining 2 being spent on the internet, including the Paceline.

[redir]

Originally Posted by cloudguy

Yeah, that makes sense. My guess is that most desk jockeys (myself included) only work 6 hours a day anyway, the remaining 2 being spent on the internet, including the Paceline.

That's even generous

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zBfTrjPSShs

[93KgBike]

Originally Posted by HenryA

Not so sure about freeing up people’s time. Waking up in the morning and having purpose in life might involve a job or some kind of work.

Perhaps not all useful work is valued as compensable. For example, Einstein's theoretical work in astrophysics didn't pay his bills, but there'd have been no Bell Labs without it. If we can't accurately predict what human activity is valuable to the future by what the market will pay for, maybe we should value people more than work?

The downside of technology might be that people are more under employed than before. Or not employed at all. What I know of human nature is that having a reason to work and especially to benefit from your work is pretty much hard wired in people. It builds self respect and respect from others.

If the choice of whether to concentrate value in the accumulation of profit, or to invest in the well-being of the population continues to be a source of great pain for western value-systems, is it possible that GDP may be a good measure of productivity, but it not a good measure the health or potential of a population or the future for the child just born today?

In caveman terms, a person who goes out and kills something and brings it back to the clan will enjoy high status in the clan.

Leaving aside the unprovability of this statement; in caveman times, every member of the clan needed to be valued for the group to survive. I'd imagine that a person who goes out and finds honey, or edible seed would have higher status, because without refrigeration meat had no durable value.

I think this is modern France’s “let them eat cake moment” and its not working out so well for the “leadership” class. The challenge to leadership now-a-days is to make sure that all who contribute get a cookie. No cookies equals revolution.

If the problem with social democracy is that poor people don't want to be equal, because they want to be rich, then what does that say about society only valuing wealthy people?

[HenryA]

Originally Posted by 93KgBike

Perhaps not all useful work is valued as compensable. For example, Einstein's theoretical work in astrophysics didn't pay his bills, but there'd have been no Bell Labs without it. If we can't accurately predict what human activity is valuable to the future by what the market will pay for, maybe we should value people more than work?



If the choice of whether to concentrate value in the accumulation of profit, or to invest in the well-being of the population continues to be a source of great pain for western value-systems, is it possible that GDP may be a good measure of productivity, but it not a good measure the health or potential of a population or the future for the child just born today?



Leaving aside the unprovability of this statement; in caveman times, every member of the clan needed to be valued for the group to survive. I'd imagine that a person who goes out and finds honey, or edible seed would have higher status, because without refrigeration meat had no durable value.



If the problem with social democracy is that poor people don't want to be equal, because they want to be rich, then what does that say about society only valuing wealthy people?

My comments about work were intended not to advocate for a certain number of hours worked but rather for work that might be satisfying and maybe even rewarding to the worker and society. I’m saying having both the ability to make a decent living AND some satisfaction might be a goal to work towards.

It appears to me that the yellow jackets may not be feeling either one these days. And when there is even the appearance of central planning or a group of leaders in charge who dictate how others will live, those dictated to will have an expectation of good planning and a good result.

Not to wander off into the individual’s or group’s consent to be governed, but well, when things don’t seem to be going right it’s going to be someone’s fault. Here, who else to look to but Macron and cronies?

[redir]

I think the thing about work is that an hour is almost a form of currency. Like when you are finalizing a contact with someone to commit to doing some work you base a lot of what it costs on how much time it's gonna take. So you know you are going to need 5 workers and it will take about 2000 hours and you do the math. Of course you try to get it done faster then that then you really make the money.

The opposite of that would be salaried employees... That's almost worse. Ah yeah I'm gonna have to ask you to come in on Saturday...

[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by Davist

VERY very true, the nuclear question is about will more than anything. Even Fukishima is 2 generations behind current designs (and not that great a design, as per OP). In US our nuclear engineers are rare, and nonexistent (well other than USN) under 60+ years old. This could have been solved by continuing to build generation... rather than stopping everything in the 70s (literally every type of power plant..)

Modern Nuclear 'pocket' reactors, like those in USN CVs and submarines, are VERY safe and VERY modern. That technology coupled with proven ways to recycle and reuse the nuclear material, could provide clean, emissions free energy for many, many years BUT..the political will isn't there, coupled with a white house and congress who are bought and paid for by 'BigEnergy'...