Fueling a relevant argument

[m_sasso]

And you guys completely glossed over crank length, my life of cycling is coming to an end!

[tylercheung]

Originally Posted by Clean39T

Merge with 'reasons not to ride road tubeless', 'carbon bikes are fragile', 'powermeters are for the mentally-weak', 'ceramic bearings are hype', and '25mm tires are enough' ----- and you'll have a solid argument for not needing anything new in the cycling world for a good long time

Well, my cousin rides a beat up old Centurion with 8 speed and downtube shifters around town and thinks nothing of it..

[pdmtong]

Originally Posted by StephenCL

Yeah,

I’ll weigh in on this literally. I have been on the fence with this topic now for over a year. I ordered an brand new Firefly last year, and I went with Disc brakes for it.

Yes, they stop well, and they allowed me to cut some insane turns on the Cols in the French Alps, I went deeper into turns at speed then I ever have before. Folks that know me know how much I love descending and for that, discs are amazing. However, that’s where the goodness ends. Literally, there is not another single positive factor regarding disc brakes. Here are the negatives:

1) weight — I am running Bora One Tubulars with discs, so I have it about as light as I can. I figure between rotors, calipers etc, discs add a good 1-1.5 lbs to a bike fitted with equal level rim brakes and more compared to an EE set up. It’s real weight with a chunk of it being rotational weight.

2) spin up — I can tell you without question that disc wheels WILL NOT spin up as fast as a good set of light tubular climbing wheels, or even a set of great alloy hoops like the Shamal. With more mass in the wheels, the moment of inertia is much higher. It’s real, and anyone can feel it. If they deny it, they are lying.

3) asthetics — hydraulic fluid requires a place to camp out. For most unfortunately, that is a bulbous edifice at the top of the brake hoods. While, I kind of dig the Cinelli Spinaci bar type extensions it creates on my hoods, it looks terrible.

4) end user serviceability — for this I will come back to my epic trip to France last summer. Many people in our group had rented top of the line Pinarello Dogma F10’s with Discs. Unfortunately, 4 of them had warped discs that made the entire week pretty miserable. For the average bike rider, discs are a real problem. They can’t really be serviced by the casual user. They require a bike shop. Maybe that is why the industry is pushing them so hard? I don’t know, but after almost 40 years tuning and building bikes, I can tell you there is NOTHING user friendly about owning and maintaining the current iteration of disc brakes. From the bleeding of the system to caring for the the pads during transport, to warped rotors, for the average consumer, disc brakes are a nightmare. Heaven forbid the owner actually touches the disc...

So, I will keep the firefly because it is gorgeous and it loves to go downhill. However, I won’t be investing in any more disc bikes until they can fix some inherent issues.

Just my .02.

Stephen

it's great to read a strong opinion based on personal experience.

[TheseGoTo11]

I agree with much of what the OP says about hydraulic disc brakes.

[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by johnniecakes

Again already? Ride what you like, but ride!

No kidding..must be the 'safer at home' gig..more time at home on the 'puter....

[FastforaSlowGuy]

I say ride what you like. That said, for road riding, I can see a real benefit of hydraulic disc brakes for TT bikes where funky brake routing and squishy rear brake feel has become the norm. And weight is less of a concern with those bikes.

[merlinmurph]

More fuel in an RKP podcast where both Patrick and Selene declare that they will never buy a new rim-brake bike again.

Of course, they're not you, ride what you want.

[Kirk007]

Oops, too late for me.

Sent from my moto z3 using Tapatalk

[tylercheung]

Originally Posted by merlinmurph

More fuel in an RKP podcast where both Patrick and Selene declare that they will never buy a new rim-brake bike again.

Of course, they're not you, ride what you want.

That's because Patrick bought his DiNucci to end all DiNucci's, if I recall correctly...so he can't buy another one!

Granted I have an "around town" bike with the velo orange grand cru calipers he's using and I can't get them to bite as hard as my short reach ones...but maybe I haven't trouble shooted them enough

[EliteVelo]

Originally Posted by StephenCL

Yeah,

I’ll weigh in on this literally. I have been on the fence with this topic now for over a year. I ordered an brand new Firefly last year, and I went with Disc brakes for it.

Yes, they stop well, and they allowed me to cut some insane turns on the Cols in the French Alps, I went deeper into turns at speed then I ever have before. Folks that know me know how much I love descending and for that, discs are amazing. However, that’s where the goodness ends. Literally, there is not another single positive factor regarding disc brakes. Here are the negatives:

1) weight — I am running Bora One Tubulars with discs, so I have it about as light as I can. I figure between rotors, calipers etc, discs add a good 1-1.5 lbs to a bike fitted with equal level rim brakes and more compared to an EE set up. It’s real weight with a chunk of it being rotational weight.

2) spin up — I can tell you without question that disc wheels WILL NOT spin up as fast as a good set of light tubular climbing wheels, or even a set of great alloy hoops like the Shamal. With more mass in the wheels, the moment of inertia is much higher. It’s real, and anyone can feel it. If they deny it, they are lying.

3) asthetics — hydraulic fluid requires a place to camp out. For most unfortunately, that is a bulbous edifice at the top of the brake hoods. While, I kind of dig the Cinelli Spinaci bar type extensions it creates on my hoods, it looks terrible.

4) end user serviceability — for this I will come back to my epic trip to France last summer. Many people in our group had rented top of the line Pinarello Dogma F10’s with Discs. Unfortunately, 4 of them had warped discs that made the entire week pretty miserable. For the average bike rider, discs are a real problem. They can’t really be serviced by the casual user. They require a bike shop. Maybe that is why the industry is pushing them so hard? I don’t know, but after almost 40 years tuning and building bikes, I can tell you there is NOTHING user friendly about owning and maintaining the current iteration of disc brakes. From the bleeding of the system to caring for the the pads during transport, to warped rotors, for the average consumer, disc brakes are a nightmare. Heaven forbid the owner actually touches the disc...

So, I will keep the firefly because it is gorgeous and it loves to go downhill. However, I won’t be investing in any more disc bikes until they can fix some inherent issues.

Just my .02.

Stephen

Well written Stephen. Couldn't agree more!

[Spoker]

Of course the dramatically shorter braking distance may save your life one day.
Last weekend I flew by my rim braked buddies on a steep descend in the rain.
In the dry they used to leave me lagging on rim brakes.
What is a pound if not racing?

[tomato coupe]

Originally Posted by StephenCL

2) spin up — I can tell you without question that disc wheels WILL NOT spin up as fast as a good set of light tubular climbing wheels, or even a set of great alloy hoops like the Shamal. With more mass in the wheels, the moment of inertia is much higher. It’s real, and anyone can feel it. If they deny it, they are lying.

Have you calculated the moment of inertia of a disc rotor?

[Clean39T]

Originally Posted by tomato coupe

Have you calculated the moment of inertia of a disc rotor?

SRAM or Campy?

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

[tomato coupe]

Originally Posted by Clean39T

SRAM or Campy?

Either.

[oldpotatoe]

2) spin up — I can tell you without question that disc wheels WILL NOT spin up as fast as a good set of light tubular climbing wheels, or even a set of great alloy hoops like the Shamal. With more mass in the wheels, the moment of inertia is much higher. It’s real, and anyone can feel it. If they deny it, they are lying.

Originally Posted by tomato coupe

Have you calculated the moment of inertia of a disc rotor?

Pretty funny..the difference in 'mass' of a 450g rim and 350g rim? 3 ounces on a bicycle rim? Sorry...that 'difference' is lost in the noise, particularly with different tire designs. The 'flywheel' effect, altho it DOES exist, is teeny, tiny and the only way to observe it is on a test rig and the difference in energy required to 'accelerate' a heavier rim is on the order of .1 of 1% more...