Ti frame, bottom bracket install

jkbrwn · #1 01-16-2021, 02:08 PM

Hi PL,

I'm asking this retrospectively, as I've already done it, but:

My Praxis threaded BSA BB was installed at the shop with anti sieze. It's creaked from day one. I have periodically removed the cranks to tighten and regrease different bolts, but nothing made a difference. It was never that bad but it got so bad recently that I decided I couldn't deal with it anymore. It was all I could think about when climbing out of the saddle. Infuriating.

My LBS were kind enough to give me a Praxis tool as they had loads. I removed the BB last night, cleaned the threads on the BB and frame thoroughly. The threads, while having some anti sieze on them, looked almost dry.

I applied a liberal amount of Park grease, reinstalled the BB and rode this morning. Silence. Pure bliss. Truly wonderful.

After reinstalling the BB, I read that anti sieze is used to help stop the galvanic process when water ingress occurs. So then I was like ah crap I've made a mistake. Any opinions on this? I used the search tool but didn't find anything.

Is my shell gonna sieze to my BB cup? Is grease a no-no? I've ready many conflicting opinions on other websites.

NHAero · #2 01-16-2021, 02:15 PM

FWIW, Wheels Mfg instructions call for grease, but have no frame material specific guidance.

mktng · #3 01-16-2021, 02:19 PM

If you're doing your preventative maintenance. You shouldn't have issues. Annual/semi annual removal, cleaning and regreasing.

eddief · #4 01-16-2021, 02:22 PM

is what always worked for me.

tepextate · #5 01-16-2021, 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NHAero

FWIW, Wheels Mfg instructions call for grease, but have no frame material specific guidance.

I believe they do.

https://wheelsmfg.com/tech/PDF/PF30-...CTIONS-WEB.pdf

Here's the manual that I'm following for my Wheels Mfg PF30 BB.

They say to use anti-seize for titanium BBs.

Would be interested in some thoughts here as well.

DeBike · #6 01-16-2021, 02:39 PM

I have an early 2000 Airborne Zeppelin titanium. I bought the bike in 2017. I know it was grease the first time I pulled the BB and the shell was in fine shape. I used grease when remounting. Maybe 4 months ago, I switched the crank set and BB. No problem from having used grease in 2017, and used grease again with the new BB.

JasonF · #7 01-16-2021, 02:50 PM

I wouldn't worry about it:

1. Since you're in SoCal you can probably count on one hand the number of rainy rides you'll have over the next 10+ years that may contribute to speeding up the galvanic process.
2. In the meantime, you'll likely remove and replace multiple bottom brackets.
3. During one of these changes feel free to put some anti-seize in there rather than grease.

NHAero · #8 01-16-2021, 02:54 PM

Well that’s interesting! The instructions for the BSA BB30 I just bought didn't have that info anywhere!

Quote:

Originally Posted by tepextate

I believe they do.

https://wheelsmfg.com/tech/PDF/PF30-...CTIONS-WEB.pdf

Here's the manual that I'm following for my Wheels Mfg PF30 BB.

They say to use anti-seize for titanium BBs.

Would be interested in some thoughts here as well.

joevers · #9 01-16-2021, 02:57 PM

Grease definitely dampens noise, but I'm actually really curious about why your BB was creaking in the first place. I'm not sure I've really dealt with a threaded bottom bracket creak that wasn't a result of the bearings or spindle wear.

I'm glad you've got it silenced but what did the shop say about it?

Either way, riding in Socal and being on top of periodic bike maintenance means grease is going to be fine. Galvanic corrosion I believe needs water. Liberal grease and very little rain means you'll be totally fine.

Dude · #10 01-16-2021, 02:57 PM

Grease will be fine. Anti seize should’ve been fine too, they might no have put enough on.

tuscanyswe · #11 01-16-2021, 03:00 PM

Usually when a threaded bb is making noice its from the bearings and not the installation itself in my experience. The cups shouldent move inside the frame so they should not make noice regardless of compound used in the installation process. The bearings in the cups on the other hand, different matter. The creaking bb issues we hear of and installation issues is mostly if not exclusively pressfits bottom brackets (so not threads in the frame). So bit suprised that just taking the bb out and putting it in again has caused the frame to be silent. However great for you

I never use anything but only grease for my instalsl. If u live in a place with very crappy weather and you never take pieces apart to do maintanence than it could potentially be an issues after years of use. Grease was all they had back in the day..

tv_vt · #12 01-16-2021, 03:08 PM

You could've brushed on more anti-seize to the threads to get them thoroughly covered. If creaks are an issue still, I'd wrap threads w/teflon tape, wrapped in the direction so that it tightens down as you thread in the BB.

jkbrwn · #13 01-16-2021, 03:15 PM

Thanks everyone for the replies. I figured it'd be fine too with regular maintenance and being in SoCal.

@joevers - I didn't contact the shop. And I absolutely don't want it to seem like I'm badmouthing them - I'm absolutely not as they're experts and I know anti sieze should have been fine - but the shop isn't local to me so it didn't make sense to go back to them.

Before I had the tool to actually remove the BB, I removed the cranks and re-greased the bearings underneath the dust caps and the nose was still very much present. So I don't think it was the bearings. Bear in mind this was creaking from day one, when the bottom bracket was brand new.

I read that small creaks can resonate through Ti frames and sound much louder than they actually are. Unsure if there's any truth in that.

But yeah - totally silent this morning. A huge relief.

joevers · #14 01-16-2021, 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jkbrwn

@joevers - I didn't contact the shop. And I absolutely don't want it to seem like I'm badmouthing them - I'm absolutely not as they're experts and I know anti sieze should have been fine - but the shop isn't local to me so it didn't make sense to go back to them.

I read that small creaks can resonate through Ti frames and sound much louder than they actually are. Unsure if there's any truth in that.

I didn't think you were! No worries at all, didn't read it that way. I was wondering if you ever took it to them with the creak and if they had anything to say about it.

I think if we consider steel the standard- it makes sense oversize ti might resonate a little bit louder, but honestly carbon is usually where you hear that. It's stiff and hollow and thin so carbon will resonate creaks of all kinds, even really normal sounds that result from pretty routine flex (spoiler: everything flexes a little). It's why carbon wheels are so much louder than alloy. I can't imagine Ti amplifying sounds to anywhere near the extent of carbon.

Whatever the case, really glad to hear you're creak free. I hope it stays that way.

FriarQuade · #15 01-16-2021, 03:29 PM

In my experience, bottom brackets usually creak because they're too damn tight than because of what lubricant you installed them with. People love to install BB's at excessive torque and think that when they creak they need to be tighter. I've had nearly 100% success fixing creaking bottom brackets by taking it apart, re-lubing the threads and re-installing with a torque wrench. The difference between grease and anti-seize isn't going to be the difference here.