Friendly fire on the bike path (Minuteman Bike Path)

[echappist]

Originally Posted by unterhausen

I imagine they both had their heads down.

Our trails mostly have pedestrian traffic.

I rode on the Capital Crescent trail and the WO&D trail during morning commute last spring, and I see exactly how this sort of thing happens. People going 20+ combined with passing slower traffic or pedestrians without slowing down. The Capital Crescent trail was scarier, because I was going outbound during inbound commuting hours. Of course, the WO&D had its moments, getting passed by a guy in a suit on an upright bike comes to mind. Then he ran a stoplight. Must have been late.

for two relatively serious cyclists traveling in opposite directions, then relative speed is 40 mph. Huge world of hurt

i avoid the trails during peak times for just this reason... Granted, chances of getting killed as a result of bicycles-only crash is gotta be quite low, but chances of getting injured is still great (not to mention having to countenance all sort of impolite trail behavior)

Originally Posted by benb

Worst case on this path (I've been riding it occasionally for > 20 years) is mixed speed use cases.

You've got people going both directions, plenty of traffic. If you're the fit guy on a road bike with a brain you're slowing WAY down to like 5mph when you come up behind a family with young kids so you can wait for oncoming traffic to pass the other direction.

But you've got bike path heroes who are really bothered about slowing down... they're going as fast as possible on that path no matter what, so they are weaving back and forth to try and pass slower traffic in that narrow window before the other group coming towards them at 5-10mph blocks their ability to pass.

I just looked at my Track from yesterday. I averaged 9.8mph on one of the Strava Segments on the path yesterday with my 6-year old and his friend. Even if they spin out at 150rpm they are not going to exceed 15mph with the gearing on their 20" MTBs.

That Segment the leader is 25mph... what happens if that guy going 25mph hits my kid oncoming with a 35-40mph closing speed? Note that averaging 25mph on that MUT segment requires likely running through 2 stop signs plus a light that crosses a busy street, so realistically you need to exceed 30mph in places to do that.

ditto for the Schuylkill Trail here in Philly. Maybe when I was younger, I was brash, foolish, and inconsiderate enough to run stop signs on trails. Not anymore...

[makoti]

Originally Posted by benb

But on the weekend in the middle of the day when the weather is nice it is all Mom's pushing strollers, people with dog's off the leash, kids wobbling all over the place, rollerbladers who need > 50% of the width of the trail, and fat guys on road bikes trying to get the Strava KOMs. And they're all wearing their earbuds rocking out.

This describes every MUT. I'll use them, but never on weekends or nice spring evenings.

[seanile]

rode by the aftermath of that yesterday. had been trying to find out what came of it..sad.

[unterhausen]

Too bad flagging strava segments like that is so difficult and yet unsatisfying, in that they still have a leader board. I guess they know what their customers want.

I also go slowly on bike paths for the most part. It's just not worth it to go faster.

[AJosiahK]

thats incredibly sad. wow.

I ride that path alot, or used to. I worked in lex at RSC for several years and know the path well.

It can get kind of crazy at points, with strollers, walkers, dogs, kids, commuters, and racer type cyclists all using the same lanes.

My condolences to all loved ones.

ride safe out there yall

[fmradio516]

Originally Posted by AJosiahK

thats incredibly sad. wow.

I ride that path alot, or used to. I worked in lex at RSC for several years and know the path well.

It can get kind of crazy at points, with strollers, walkers, dogs, kids, commuters, and racer type cyclists all using the same lanes.

My condolences to all loved ones.

ride safe out there yall

Yeah I avoid this path at all costs. Those being the reasons. I just ride along side it on Rt-2A.

Whenever a buddy of mine wants to go for a ride, he always suggests the minuteman. I always say no because its a matter of time until something like this happens. Tons of moms walking side by side with strollers taking up the entire path chatting and not paying attention at all.

[MattTuck]

Originally Posted by fmradio516

Yeah I avoid this path at all costs. Those being the reasons. I just ride along side it on Rt-2A.

Whenever a buddy of mine wants to go for a ride, he always suggests the minuteman. I always say no because its a matter of time until something like this happens. Tons of moms walking side by side with strollers taking up the entire path chatting and not paying attention at all.

maybe this is the point of the trail in the first place.

When they say "multi-use trail", that means a mix of users. It is not a limited access bike highway, like they seem to have in Europe.

[fmradio516]

Originally Posted by MattTuck

maybe this is the point of the trail in the first place.

When they say "multi-use trail", that means a mix of users. It is not a limited access bike highway, like they seem to have in Europe.

Yeah but they are just abusing it. There is a line painted in the middle dividing the trail for both directions of traffic. Some people just dont care.

[vincenz]

Sad to see. I avoid all MUPs during busy times of day and season. I can control what I do, but I have no control over what other people do. Besides, I have a road bike. Best to just take it on the road where it belongs. If I wanted to cruise on an MUP, I’d use a town bike for the safety of myself and others.

[NYCfixie]

Sad but not surprising as yesterday was the first really nice day in months so all the truly recreational cyclists dusted the cobwebs off their bikes and went out for a ride.

It has been said by a few other local cyclists and it is sooooooooooooo true - that path is great for early morning and late evening commuters but other than that there are too many people of all ages walking, strollers, jogging, kids slow cycling, kids on scooters, dogs, and anything else you can imagine using it. It is not a place for people on bikes to be going fast and trying to get in a workout. Unfortunately it is one of the longest off-street paths in the area so it is over used.

[buddybikes]

This is real sad.

Just finished my way home from opticians on the east bay bike path in RI, yes heavily mixed use. Keep head up and have good glasses, which early in season for older riders can be issue if your neck muscles aren't in gear.

[Mark McM]

Originally Posted by MattTuck

maybe this is the point of the trail in the first place.

When they say "multi-use trail", that means a mix of users. It is not a limited access bike highway, like they seem to have in Europe.

^^^^ This.

I treat MUPs as what they are: They are not transportation corridors, they are linear parks (with all the activities you'd expect in urban or suburban parks). I'll use the MUP when I want a leisurely cruise, take in the sights, and get some fresh air. But when I have somewhere to go or want to get a good workout, I'll take the roads.

[seanile]

the name of the trail does express a prioritization to bikes, however incorrect/correct that may be.
"Minuteman Commuter Bikeway"

[benb]

The Cape Cod Rail Trail is much the same thing and IIRC they have posted 15mph speed limits there some places.

It may be they need to do the same thing, but nothing is going to stop the bad behavior.

It doesn't attract the safest cyclists, and all the other users have pretty much 0 idea that a trail should be treated with respect the same way the roadway is.

[nooneline]

Originally Posted by echappist

for two relatively serious cyclists traveling in opposite directions, then relative speed is 40 mph. Huge world of hurt

A few years ago I was ending a ride on the first nice day of spring with several people, slogging back across a narrow path on bridge into a headwind, tired legs after 100km, maybe going 15mph.

As we reach the other side of the bridge, a lone cyclist comes flying around the bend - tailwind, downhill entry - and I hear a noise and turn around to see that he's hit the last member of my group head-on. Handlebar to handlebar contact.

The snapshot is burned into my brain - he was flying through the air and landed some thirty feet away; the person in my group collapsing over the handlebars on the way to the ground.

The other guy, when he landed, was screaming in pain, and his bike had bounced over the barrier and across two lanes of traffic. We found out later that he broke 2 ribs, cracked a vertebrae, and collapsed or punctured a lung. The member of my party? A broken thumb - but the other guy was riding again before our companion had healed and recovered from surgery.

We also found out later - from his garmin, since our party had recovered his bike and took it home with his contact info after he was loaded into an ambulance - that he had been going 30mph, downhill, tailwind, on the narrow path.

So yes. A huge world of hurt. And I'm still angry about it. And hearing about this story? Well, it makes me sad. And relieved that my experience wasn't worse.