OT: are manual transmissions safer?

[Spaghetti Legs]

For those that couldn't or didn't read the article, it was an opinion piece on how manual transmission would lead to safer driving. No data backup but it does make some sense.

Like the writer my first car bought on my own was a used BMW 325, except mine was an '85. I drove stick for about 25 years until I went electric. It was a bittersweet goodbye but electric is worth it.

[sailorboy]

Originally Posted by 572cv

...
But the other thing i did was start them on second hand Peugeots, which I was into for many years... But I knew they would break down from time to time. I wanted the kids to know that cars are machines and they can fail from time to time. They learned great lessons from those cars, and learned to appreciate the finer aspects as well as the less good ones.

Dad, is that you? So funny, if you're in Vermont you must have gotten yours at the imported center in Williston?

I recall our 405 wagon's fuel gauge was busted, and so why get that fixed?? Consequently as a 17 year-old I had to calculate mileage in order to avoid running out of diesel on a cold vermont night. Yea, you and my old man cut from the same cloth.

I can't tell you how many exasperated trips I made up to that dealer from Waitsfield with my dad in the 80's trying to sort out his Peugeots...until they finally cut their losses and stopped bringing them over. Don't look now but they got this:

https://www.importedcarcenter.com/19...3/Details.aspx

[Clean39T]

Originally Posted by Spaghetti Legs

For those that couldn't or didn't read the article, it was an opinion piece on how manual transmission would lead to safer driving. No data backup but it does make some sense.

Like the writer my first car bought on my own was a used BMW 325, except mine was an '85. I drove stick for about 25 years until I went electric. It was a bittersweet goodbye but electric is worth it.

Did you get an i3? I had one for almost three years, and it was quite fun to drive - and surprisingly spacious for my 6'3" self (and constant coming/going of bike boxes).

[wooly]

Originally Posted by 72gmc

We did the same with my now 19-year-old, and she's still using a bus pass. I let her learn some basics in my old truck (in a parking lot) but her only option for the road was Mom's stick shift Honda, and she bailed. I'm just fine with that.

That’s a head strong young lady!

[choke]

I do think that a manual makes for a better driver...it forces you to pay more attention.

On a related note and contrary to popular opinion, I actually feel safer on a motorcycle than in a car. When I'm on the MC I assume that everyone is out to get me and I pay 100% attention to what's going on around me. My focus is totally on the act of riding and on my surroundings and I know that's not the case when I'm driving a car.

[Ken Robb]

Originally Posted by sailorboy

Dad, is that you? So funny, if you're in Vermont you must have gotten yours at the imported center in Williston?

I recall our 405 wagon's fuel gauge was busted, and so why get that fixed?? Consequently as a 17 year-old I had to calculate mileage in order to avoid running out of diesel on a cold vermont night. Yea, you and my old man cut from the same cloth.

I can't tell you how many exasperated trips I made up to that dealer from Waitsfield with my dad in the 80's trying to sort out his Peugeots...until they finally cut their losses and stopped bringing them over. Don't look now but they got this:

https://www.importedcarcenter.com/19...3/Details.aspx

Peugeot thought they were going to sell a bunch of 505 diesel sedans as taxis in the USA so they sent over quite a few painted Taxi Cab YELLOW. The taxi deal did not go through so our local dealer was offering them for at least $2,000 cheaper than similar cars in "normal" colors.

[Gsinill]

To answer Thwart's initial question: it probably depends on the car.
For the daily drivers in our house, I wouldn't want anything but automatic.
My fun car is MT though and has the tendency to go a bit over the speed limit as well as making me drive a little more aggressive than my Diesel SUV.
In my case the answer is "no".

[Peter P.]

Originally Posted by benb

I am fairly confident when we get there autonomous is going to be glorious.

But no one has addressed the elephant in the room; what's the cost increase per vehicle?

I believe the price increase to build autonomous cars, and the infrastructure to support the system, will put them out of reach of most people.

What I predict will happen is, autonomous cars will be like taxis, roaming around while being hailed by your smartphone. You may share the ride with others as that will be more efficient, or pay a premium to be the only passenger. Since there will be fewer vehicles, partially due to the cost and partially due to the efficiency, the auto companies will own the vehicles. They will have to maintain their profit levels, so while your riding in the car will be ala carte and you'll be led to believe you are paying less, your actual cost will be slightly higher as the car companies struggle to maintain those income and profit levels.

Autonomous vehicles owned by individuals will be a status symbol and we will be mostly 'have nots'. They will be a sign of the capitalist class.

[ultraman6970]

Here in the states manual trannys is not needed IMO, debatable I know... so... either way... imagine this... NYC, Manual tranny and cell phone, all at the same time....

[TMD]

Driving in NYC for the last 15 years, manual Jeeps the whole time.

[witcombusa]

Originally Posted by ultraman6970

Here in the states manual trannys is not needed IMO, debatable I know... so... either way... imagine this... NYC, Manual tranny and cell phone, all at the same time....

Needed? How about WANTED!
In the 'States'? That encompasses about the most diverse collection of roads I can imagine.

[572cv]

Originally Posted by sailorboy

Dad, is that you? So funny, if you're in Vermont you must have gotten yours at the imported center in Williston?



I recall our 405 wagon's fuel gauge was busted, and so why get that fixed?? Consequently as a 17 year-old I had to calculate mileage in order to avoid running out of diesel on a cold vermont night. Yea, you and my old man cut from the same cloth.



I can't tell you how many exasperated trips I made up to that dealer from Waitsfield with my dad in the 80's trying to sort out his Peugeots...until they finally cut their losses and stopped bringing them over. Don't look now but they got this:



https://www.importedcarcenter.com/19...3/Details.aspx

Hah. Nice to hear from you, ‘ Son’ !! I’m glad that you had a sensible father, albeit with a weakness for Peugeots ;-). So what if the fuel gauge busted? You just waited for the speedo cable to freeze up, and then make a trip to Arlo’s (imported car center for everyone else) to fix everything at once. Save the extra trip. The problem with Peugeots in the US was that they were either very reliable or not reliable. I think it depended on whether they were made on a Monday/Friday (effects of the weekend), or not. The good ones were amazing values. The bad ones destroyed reputation. Imported took care of you as a customer, and outsold Volvo and BMW in this area as a consequence. They were the highest selling dealership in the US, which proves, sort of, that Pugs could be successful here, with the right approach. Anyway, glad to make the acquaintance and glad you too had good formative auto training (to borrow from e-Ritchie...ATMO) !


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[BikeNY]

Lots of good stories! I learned to drive on an '85 Izuzu Trooper like the one pictured below. 5 speed & a tiny 4 cylinder engine and a really long throw stick shift made an interesting driving experience! The first vehicle I bought on my own was a first generation Land Rover Discovery like the one pictured below, with an extremely rare 5 speed manual. That thing was the most difficult manual vehicle that I've ever driven! I taught my now wife how to drive a manual on that thing, and now she can drive anything! 10 other manual vehicles later(including the 911 pictured), my current 2015 VW GSW TDI is just a joy to drive.

One thing I forgot to mention is in general, a manual car will save you money! They are usually the cheaper transmission option (although some sporty cars are actually charging a premium for them now!), and the repair and maintenance costs are usually lower. Also, they get better fuel economy than a standard automatic, and better than some of the fancy expensive DSG type transmissions. You may need a new clutch now and then, but there's not much else. My last 2010 VW Golf TDI (RIP) was still on it's original clutch when my wife rear ended somebody with over 100k miles.

[Gummee]

Small engine + slushbox = no thanks
Big engine + slushbox = maybe, but I'd still prefer a manual

Yes, I know the flappy paddle gearboxes shift lots faster than a true manual. No, I don't want one except for a true sequential gearbox like in the rally cars.

I'm driving a unicorn at the moment: 6MT BMW X3 I wanted an SUV to get to CX races with bikes inside, and wanted a manual. Got both. However, if this particular car had an auto, I'd probably hate it. The little 2.5l straight 6 is a bit too small for the car. With a manual, I can make it do what I want it to do.

M

[dookie]

My nine year old loves to work the gears in our 'for fun' car ('99 Miata) and gives me grief when I don't rev match his downshifts. I'm sure he'll drive it one day...