OT: are manual transmissions safer?

[witcombusa]

Originally Posted by mcteague

Unfortunately, in today's market, manual shifting can really hurt resale value. So few know how to drive stick anymore. I suppose sports cars are the exception. How many "normal" cars even offer manual transmission these days?
Tim

Who wants to drive a 'normal' car?

My WRX is in for RECALL work and they gave me a loaner with a CVT trans.
I don't know how people drive these things, they're just awful!
I want my baby back!!!

[AngryScientist]

Originally Posted by Llewellyn

It seems to me that virtually all cars built after about 2011/12 have an automatic transmission and it's really really hard to find a manual these days - is it the same in the States?

I've always driven (and prefer) manuals - it just feels as if I'm in control rather than the car. My current drive is a 2006 Corolla and I fear that if it ever needs replacing it might be almost impossible to find a manual.

at least in the US, you can still buy a 2020 carolla with a 6MT, just checked.

as far as i know, you can still get all the VW cars/hatches with MT as well as honda accord/civic, toyota carolla/camry, most of the BMWs still offer manual and i think any subaru can be gotten with a manual.

[speedevil]

I've seen manual transmissions referred to as "millenial anti-theft devices". Funny. But driving a manual definitely keeps you more engaged while driving. Sadly that doesn't necessarily help any of the drivers that you encounter to be more alert.

[oldpotatoe]

Hmmm..after about a dozen or so cars owned..from VW to Fiat to Ford to Honda to even a NSU..all but the last were manual transmissions...

Doubt I'll ever opt for a manual again...driving to me is the process of getting from here to there. Reliability, and ease are the biggest pluses. Driving down to Colorado Springs on Sat..2 lane, Interstate 25..accident meant 6-7 miles of stop and go..(mostly stop)..a manual would have been a bigger PITA.

VW Golf SW, 4 Motion, with DSG..if ya wanna engage and shift the thing, go ahead, paddle shifters and all..think I used that once in 2 years..just to see how it worked..YMMV and all that.

[William]

Originally Posted by oldpotatoe

Hmmm..after about a dozen or so cars owned..from VW to Fiat to Ford to Honda to even a NSU..all but the last were manual transmissions...

Doubt I'll ever opt for a manual again...driving to me is the process of getting from here to there. Reliability, and ease are the biggest pluses. Driving down to Colorado Springs on Sat..2 lane, Interstate 25..accident meant 6-7 miles of stop and go..(mostly stop)..a manual would have been a bigger PITA.

VW Golf SW, 4 Motion, with DSG..if ya wanna engage and shift the thing, go ahead, paddle shifters and all..think I used that once in 2 years..just to see how it worked..YMMV and all that.

I get it. And I will agree when you get stuck in traffic it can be a pain at times. But that is a minimal part of the miles I put in and I have much more fun working the gears and accelerations on hilly and windy roads that I'll put up with the occasional traffic jams.





W.

[BikeNY]

I couldn't read the article as I'm not a subscriber, but after reading all the posts I think I've got the point of it. I learned to drive on a manual and every car I've bought for myself has been a manual. We also have a a family car, usually an SUV that's automatic because it's the only option.

The manual keeps you way more engaged in the driving experience, which makes you more aware of what's going on around you, which is safer. At least that's the way I see it. It's also WAY better in slippery/snowy conditions, as you have way more control over what the car is doing. When my son got his licence we made sure he wanted to learn to drive a manual and we got him a used Subaru Crosstrek manual. I wouldn't want to drive it as it's pretty basic, but it's a great first car. Not much power so you really have to work to get that thing moving! Most of his friends also can't drive it, which I like.

As mentioned, availability is constantly getting smaller though. Mosr economy cars can still be had with a manual, as well as most VWs, smaller Subaru, some Honda, Toyota models, and obviously a bunch of sports cars. I'm very disappointed that Audi has abandoned manual transmissions, as has BMW for the most part.

[goonster]

Car & Driver maintains a list of every car still available with a manual transmission.

On the issue of distraction . . . is there anyone who regularly drives manual that hasn't mastered the higher arts of juggling coffee and donuts while heel-toeing the 3-2 downshift?

[cmg]

all 3 of the Hondas i have are stick. While there is a clutch assembly to replace every now and then they're incredibly reliable. with all the modern conveniences that modern cars can come up with they still can't see around a larger truck or SUV when parked adjacent to them. One feature that will never be designed into modern cars is ease of repair and ease of diagnoses. any manufacturer that designs a car that requires $100 of labor to be able take off an oil filter isn't doing anybody any favors. sorry for the drift.......

[R3awak3n]

Originally Posted by mcteague

Unfortunately, in today's market, manual shifting can really hurt resale value. So few know how to drive stick anymore. I suppose sports cars are the exception. How many "normal" cars even offer manual transmission these days?

Tim

Small amount offer it. I saw an article that had all the cars in the US for 2019 that were offered in manual, there were probably 15 or so. (edit - goonster posted the list ah, and says 40, lol, oops... still, not a lot)

I think it depends on the car, some cars go for a lot of money if stick, mostly sports cars but some wagons and stuff like that.

[Bruce K]

I always enjoy driving our 6-speed Mini Cooper S way more than any other vehicle.

More focus. More control. More fun.

I can see where it would cut down on texting.

And no, paddle shifters are not exactly the same thing but they do keep both hands on the wheels vs a stick.

BK

[benb]

No question I enjoy driving a stick a lot more, it definitely keeps you more engaged. However I drive in 100% stop and go traffic all week. Will it really be fun to do that many shifts just to do a 4 mile drive?

I never owned an Auto till my current Subaru Outback (which is a CVT). I hate most Automatics but I really don't mind the CVT. If you get past that it's not shifting it responds a lot more like a manual compared to a traditional Auto. The flappy paddles are quite stupid with the CVT, but if you let it do it's thing it does a great job. In a future vehicle if it was sporty I'd not want it to have flappy paddles and a fake "manual" mode but instead have several programs for the CVT like "Eco, Sport", that changed the behavior. F1 at one point developed CVTs and then banned them as soon as they saw what they were capable of.. the programming for a race car had nothing to do with what we see on street cars, but they could certainly do something more in that vein for "red mist mode" on a sportier car.

E.x. exit a corner hard in an auto and try to smoothly apply the power coming out of the corner. There is a good chance it will do the stupidest thing possible, downshift as you're feeding in the gas. The CVT will not do that at all, it will gradually and smoothly reduce the gear ratio in a way that perfectly makes more power available as you feed in throttle. You would never downshift will feeding in throttle on a corner exit in a manual right? I wouldn't.

I fear if i get another Manual it won't feel as nice. My last one was a 2005 Acura RSX Type S. It was the last Honda/Acura with manual transmission + cable operated throttle + hydraulic steering. My car got replaced by the 2006 Civic Si which had a fly-by-wire throttle + electric steering. That car got a significant upgrade to the suspension geometry which owners seemed to love but the fly by wire was universally hated by manual transmission owners because the fly by wire monkeyed with the engine behavior while you were shifting in an attempt to clean up emissions. I have driven a few other newer cars with manuals that had similar electronic trickery that really interfered with the feel of the car while driving with a manual. Hopefully 13 years later manufacturers have figured out how to get the feel right.

I have zero interest in ever owning a car with a SMT/DSG type computer controlled manual thingy, and I really don't ever want to own a 7/8/9-speed automatic... way too much complexity & cost... it's manual or CVT for me.

As for the article.. my belief is every single one of these automomous features is going to make people pay less and less attention. The safety features of the cars are making up for this.. but the driver behavior will get worse and worse until everything switches over to 100% autonomous. I am fairly confident when we get there autonomous is going to be glorious. The computers ARE going to eventually be better than 99% of the drivers out there. Just a question of how long it takes. It'll suck not to enjoy driving a really fun car but the benefits (way less traffic, way safer, not being afraid on your bicycle, etc..) are going to outweigh the negatives.

[Polyglot]

Between my wife and I, we have owned 22 manual transmission cars and 2 automatic transmission cars, ranging from econo****boxes to high performance cars to a pick-up truck (with three on the tree). We have never had an issue with driving stick. Having said that, I really doubt that we will ever buy another car that requires shifting manually between gears. That is not to say that we be shifting to an auto box. Our last two cars have both been electric which don't have a gearbox, they simply have one forward and one reverse gear. With full torque at all engine speeds, they accelerate like sports cars of old and with brake regeneration they can have stronger "automatic" decelerative powers than even the best down-shifting with a manual. What benb wrote when describing the CVT, also and even better reflects what happens with electrics. The car always has the perfect gear ratio both for acceleration and deceleration.

[sailorboy]

Originally Posted by BobC

Friend of mine bought a manual transmission car for his teenage daughter to prevent her from texting while driving (he didn't tell her that though). Pretty clever I thought.

StephenCL and I had this very discussion a few years ago regarding teaching our kids to drive a stick...unfortunately the only one I have is a '16 GTI with an aftermarket downpipe so it's probably NOT the car I want to release my 'hounds' with. I should probably look for something closer to what my Dad taught me on--first up was a '65 ford pick-up with 4 on the floor, and after that a Peugeot 504 diesel wagon. Boy did that thing have zero acceleration. This was while living in central Vermont so yea, driving was not a mindless passing of time there.

[old_fat_and_slow]

Those of you who still "enjoy" your manual transmissions have obviously never had the thrill of driving on SoCal freeways (er parking lots). If you are ever stuck in stop and go traffic for hours, you will quickly learn to hate manual transmissions, especially if you have a stiff clutch. I drove manuals until I moved to SoCal. Automatics ever since.

[Clean39T]

My dream frivolous car is an early 2000s M Roadster 6MT - no screens, just music and the road. They're under $20k now too.

I'll probably be settling for a lowly 228i 6MT w M Sport package though. Engaging to drive and good fuel sipper.

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