Pain cave... sorta

[Dekonick]

After the thread on making a spinbike 'smart' I started digging around...
Old rollers I don't use... Computrainer in a box that I need to set up... Treadmill and elliptical that do get used...

Is Zwift that good? We moved and the gym is in partial disarray... I have some bucks set aside for a new trainer... but the question I am struggling with...

New 'smart' rollers with resistance -https://www.amazon.com/Elite-Arion-Digital-Smart-Trainer/dp/B01M19J5P5

or https://www.insideride.com/buy/emotion-h (the smart version of the rollers)

Versus a kicker or a tacx neo...

[dsimon]

I love my tacx neo Just sayin

[Dekonick]

Originally Posted by dsimon

I love my tacx neo Just sayin

I have a computrainer. How much different can it be? (Serious question - If the upgrade is that good...)

[glepore]

I used a Computrainer from 2000ish to 2016 when I moved to a Kickr. Worlds apart. The ct is an amazing piece of kit, but the need to fiddle with tire pressure, slippage, trainer tire etc. just goes away. And so does the cable and the mike stand for the controller and...

I loved my ct. At the end I gave it away. A direct drive trainer is THAT much better.

[makoti]

Originally Posted by Dekonick

Is Zwift that good?

It gets me through 1hr+ workouts without going crazy. The scenery changes, bikes fly past, you can build workouts or just ride the route.
Yes, it is. There might be other options, but it does what it claims. Use a Kickr. Good stuff.

[gone]

Originally Posted by Dekonick

Is Zwift that good?

For me, yes although your goals/usage of a trainer might be different than mine.

Here's what I want out of a training platform:

1. It needs to be engaging enough that I'm not counting the minutes.
2. It needs to get me to ride harder than I otherwise would.
3. It needs to be similar enough to actually riding a bike (both from a mental stimulation and a training point of view) that I get some benefit out of it.
4. It needs to motivate me to ride the trainer longer than I otherwise would.

Here's how Zwift does those things (for me):

1. I can focus on the riders around me and "compete" with them e.g., "there's no way that rider is going to pass me". This makes me rider harder than I would if I were grinding out miles watching a movie.
2. It lets me compete against myself. It has sprints/KOMS and it shows my PR. If I'm feeling it, I can go hard and try to beat my last time or set an overall KOM.
3. The climbs hurt - you hit an 11% grade and it feels like it!
4. The routes do a nice job of mixing up climbing/descending and there are enough routes to choose from that I can decide either in advance based on the route I choose or on the fly (via the companion app) which way I want to go. Feeling peppy? Go up Alpe du Zwift. Just want to JRA? head out to the desert flats.

The only other similar thing I've tried was Rouvy and while the routes were OK, it was a pretty lonely experience. Zwift has finally done some filtering so they don't show everybody around you (hard to focus on a particular rider when you're in the middle of a 75 person spin class) and by offering two choices of "worlds".

They also have training plans that are pretty good if you want a more structured approach.

Works for me.

[Dekonick]

Originally Posted by makoti

It gets me through 1hr+ workouts without going crazy. The scenery changes, bikes fly past, you can build workouts or just ride the route.
Yes, it is. There might be other options, but it does what it claims. Use a Kickr. Good stuff.

I just bought a tacx neo2 - hard not to at under a grand from REI. 3 months to try it.

If it is that much better than the CT I'll turn that over to my kids. I still plan on putting a speed and cadence sensor on the Lemond revmaster for my boys to use.

I still think rollers with resistance that integrates with Zwift might be the ticket... My rollers are cheap plastic parabolic but fun. I like them, just haven't set them up in several years.

Zwift looks interesting...

[cash05458]

Congrats on the Neo! I bet that you will dig it...some folks just seem bugged by the game aspect of it but for what it is...a program to get you to ride more during bad weather, it is great...personally, buying a kickr was the best cycling related purchase in a decade or so...and zwift does it very well. Over the two winters I have now had the setup I have gotten in over 300 hundred hours of indoor stuff done which just blows away anything I ever got even close to when I had my old kurt kinetic dumb trainer...I found it a real game changer.

[carpediemracing]

Originally Posted by Dekonick

Is Zwift that good?

I'm a bit biased but here is my take, as a long time indoor trainer rider. FWIW I use a wheel on trainer (Kurt Kinetic Road Machine). I've gone through 3 CycleOps Fluid trainers. I have rollers, I commissioned a local welder to make me a rocking trainer, but the basic CycleOps frame with the KK RM resistance unit is my first choice (basic wheel on CycleOps and KK frames/ resistance units are interchangeable due to some agreement between the two)

1. I ride much harder on Zwift. With normal trainer riding, I rarely made huge efforts, say over 600-700w, even 400w was sort of a pain, and for me, when riding outside, my joy is in making those peak efforts. With Zwift I found myself immediately motivated to do max efforts, which on a trainer is 1000-1100w. This was about 4 years ago. Now, with some adjustments (more tire pressure, max roller pressure) and learning experiences (mainly technique), I can get closer to 1200w. Power is measured off SRM, not the algorithmic zPower. I'm still off my outdoor peak (cannot rock my bike indoors) but there is no motivation for me like trying to beat a particular time in a short effort. With regular trainer riding I had no such carrot.

2. Time does fly, relatively speaking. I'll often get on the bike to do a 1 hour ride and find myself wanting to complete a little section (usually because it's just before one of many peak effort sections of Zwift) and end up adding 10-30 min so I can have my fun doing a sprint. I've spent up to 2 hours doing a course (I think it was Richmond) trying to get a particular boost (Aero) to attack my sprint time, and just kept going each time I got a different boost.

3. I ride indoors all year round, venturing outside only to race (crits) or do get some outdoor legs back. I probably do 5 to 10 outdoor rides a year other than races. Zwift really helps.

Having said that, there are a few things I find that I do on Zwift that are maybe not as great.

1. I tend to ride easier overall. I'm not very competitive in "non-races" so I don't care if people pass me on the road, and in fact in real life I'll slow down if someone going just a touch faster passes me, just so that they don't feel like I'm draft-stalking them. So my Zwift rides tend to average a lower number. I counter this by accessing long climbs, where there are mini-goals all the way up (L'Alpe). By breaking a 90 minute climb (for me it's 90 min) into 23? sections (21 turns, the lead in, and the final bit to the top), I tend to push much harder overall. A few days ago I had a PR for long term power, 70-106 minutes, while doing that exact climb.

2. If doing a much longer ride (2+ hours) I tend to resort to my old habits, which is having a longer bike race DVD on low volume with music on high volume. Zwift is there simply to record the data since it's easier to let Zwift/Strava record and upload instead of me having to download data off the SRM and upload to Strava. The problem is that I'm ignoring Zwift. A couple times a teammate of mine has joined me but I had no idea until after, when my son (at the time 6 years old) pointed excitedly and told me that Mr Joel was riding with me. So on those rides I seem extremely antisocial since I don't respond to any messages, Ride Ons (like Thumbs Up or UpVotes), etc.

Although I could technically do indoor workouts without Zwift (because the physical equipment is the same), having the visual representation is really motivating to me. I tried doing sprints without Zwift (when my initial Zwift computer had a hardware issue) and it was totally not the same. I ended up replacing the computer in order to keep going on Zwift.

I don't care much for buying virtual equipment (unless it helps in the sprint), I don't care about awards, levels (except if it unlocks equipment that helps in the sprint), etc.

There's long term goals, like Everesting (to get the Tron bike), and I really don't care for them. Other folks go for it with gusto. I figure it's a waste if I don't put in for one so I put myself in for whatever goal. In the case of the Everest goal I signed myself up and after about 2 or so years all of a sudden I got a notification that I'd attained that goal. I think I put in for another goal but I don't remember; I did a different one before (Tour of CA?). I think it might be the Giro goal now.

My bias: I trained indoors enough before Zwift that the cofounder Eric called me to ask me about how I motivate to ride indoors, why I ride indoors, and if gameifying it would make it more interesting. Ends up one of my former teammates moved out to the West Coast to do coding for them, and one of my race series suppliers is also one of the original members of the company. I pay like any other member, I've never asked for anything from them, I'm just one of their many customers riding around on their worlds.

[saab2000]

Originally Posted by carpediemracing

I'm a bit biased but here is my take, as a long time indoor trainer rider. FWIW I use a wheel on trainer (Kurt Kinetic Road Machine). I've gone through 3 CycleOps Fluid trainers. I have rollers, I commissioned a local welder to make me a rocking trainer, but the basic CycleOps frame with the KK RM resistance unit is my first choice (basic wheel on CycleOps and KK frames/ resistance units are interchangeable due to some agreement between the two)

1. I ride much harder on Zwift. With normal trainer riding, I rarely made huge efforts, say over 600-700w, even 400w was sort of a pain, and for me, when riding outside, my joy is in making those peak efforts. With Zwift I found myself immediately motivated to do max efforts, which on a trainer is 1000-1100w. This was about 4 years ago. Now, with some adjustments (more tire pressure, max roller pressure) and learning experiences (mainly technique), I can get closer to 1200w. Power is measured off SRM, not the algorithmic zPower. I'm still off my outdoor peak (cannot rock my bike indoors) but there is no motivation for me like trying to beat a particular time in a short effort. With regular trainer riding I had no such carrot.

2. Time does fly, relatively speaking. I'll often get on the bike to do a 1 hour ride and find myself wanting to complete a little section (usually because it's just before one of many peak effort sections of Zwift) and end up adding 10-30 min so I can have my fun doing a sprint. I've spent up to 2 hours doing a course (I think it was Richmond) trying to get a particular boost (Aero) to attack my sprint time, and just kept going each time I got a different boost.

3. I ride indoors all year round, venturing outside only to race (crits) or do get some outdoor legs back. I probably do 5 to 10 outdoor rides a year other than races. Zwift really helps.

Having said that, there are a few things I find that I do on Zwift that are maybe not as great.

1. I tend to ride easier overall. I'm not very competitive in "non-races" so I don't care if people pass me on the road, and in fact in real life I'll slow down if someone going just a touch faster passes me, just so that they don't feel like I'm draft-stalking them. So my Zwift rides tend to average a lower number. I counter this by accessing long climbs, where there are mini-goals all the way up (L'Alpe). By breaking a 90 minute climb (for me it's 90 min) into 23? sections (21 turns, the lead in, and the final bit to the top), I tend to push much harder overall. A few days ago I had a PR for long term power, 70-106 minutes, while doing that exact climb.

2. If doing a much longer ride (2+ hours) I tend to resort to my old habits, which is having a longer bike race DVD on low volume with music on high volume. Zwift is there simply to record the data since it's easier to let Zwift/Strava record and upload instead of me having to download data off the SRM and upload to Strava. The problem is that I'm ignoring Zwift. A couple times a teammate of mine has joined me but I had no idea until after, when my son (at the time 6 years old) pointed excitedly and told me that Mr Joel was riding with me. So on those rides I seem extremely antisocial since I don't respond to any messages, Ride Ons (like Thumbs Up or UpVotes), etc.

Although I could technically do indoor workouts without Zwift (because the physical equipment is the same), having the visual representation is really motivating to me. I tried doing sprints without Zwift (when my initial Zwift computer had a hardware issue) and it was totally not the same. I ended up replacing the computer in order to keep going on Zwift.

I don't care much for buying virtual equipment (unless it helps in the sprint), I don't care about awards, levels (except if it unlocks equipment that helps in the sprint), etc.

There's long term goals, like Everesting (to get the Tron bike), and I really don't care for them. Other folks go for it with gusto. I figure it's a waste if I don't put in for one so I put myself in for whatever goal. In the case of the Everest goal I signed myself up and after about 2 or so years all of a sudden I got a notification that I'd attained that goal. I think I put in for another goal but I don't remember; I did a different one before (Tour of CA?). I think it might be the Giro goal now.

My bias: I trained indoors enough before Zwift that the cofounder Eric called me to ask me about how I motivate to ride indoors, why I ride indoors, and if gameifying it would make it more interesting. Ends up one of my former teammates moved out to the West Coast to do coding for them, and one of my race series suppliers is also one of the original members of the company. I pay like any other member, I've never asked for anything from them, I'm just one of their many customers riding around on their worlds.

Cool story about your connection to Zwift.

I, like others, find Zwift to be a game changer. Time does fly by much faster and I'm motivated to make harder efforts. I like the little sections and sprints and some of the hills though the "Epic KOM" hill is quite long. Climbing long hills in real life is very satisfying but less so on a game/simulator.

But yesterday I was on one of the timed sections and it did motivate me to ride harder to beat my own prior times.

I use a large-ish TV I got this past summer and stream Zwift through an Apple TV unit I got specifically for this task. It's a great setup with a Wahoo Kickr. Admittedly, it's not an inexpensive way to go but overall it's a setup that motivates me to get on the bike in winter.

It's not riding per se, but it's a lot better in my mind than the old paradigm of rollers or a trainer with music or watching TV. I do sort of with I could figure out how to run a split screen, with Zwift on one half and TV on the other half.

[bigbill]

I have a ten year old Ti bike with matching vintage Chorus 11 and an Ultegra chain on my Wahoo KICKR. I recently swapped out the crankset for a compact when Velomine had their sale on Chorus cranksets. It is setup in my living room (single) facing my 52" smart TV which is on a swivel stand. I have a BeeLink fanless CPU with a wireless keyboard/mouse that is dedicated to Zwift and Spotify. I'm adding a soundbar this weekend. I'm going to add the climb device next. I just swivel the TV to face the bike.

KICKR - $975 (team discount)
Mat - $60
Dedicated fanless CPU and accessories - $175
Zwift - $15/month
I had fans and use a TV tray for the keyboard and mouse.
The climb device will add another $500+ but it will be nice to not pay attention to the gradient box and just respond to the angle of the bike. Plus it will engage the muscles more efficiently in the climbing position.

Quick edit: My Computrainer from 1996 will works.