OT: 2019-20 NBA Discussions

[Jaybee]

Originally Posted by akelman

Totally brilliant observation that you'll only hear here (I don't just give this stuff away for free, you know): Rajon Rondo isn't particularly good at basketball anymore. For people, including me, who thought he was a fascinating player earlier in his career, it's a bummer, but there it is: time comes for us all.

Anyway, Rondo is elderly; KCP is getting booed at home, because he's playing so badly (though he shot pretty well last night for the first time this season); Danny Green is incredibly cold from three (though he's defending quite well); and AD's shoulder seems to be hindering him just enough that he's human. It'll be interesting to see what happens with Bradley out for a couple of weeks.

It's a long season, but so far youre getting the engaged version of LeBron. That guy still has a claim for best player on the planet, which papers over a lot of sins. Kuz has been pretty solid too.

[akelman]

Originally Posted by Jaybee

It's a long season, but so far youre getting the engaged version of LeBron. That guy still has a claim for best player on the planet, which papers over a lot of sins. Kuz has been pretty solid too.

I've been to four games this season and watched the rest on teevee, and the team is loose and having a lot of fun. LeBron and AD both seem to enjoy playing with another top-five player. Howard and McGee are on their best behavior. Green and Bradley are/were playing terrific defense. Everyone is moving without the ball, because LBJ apparently wants to lead the league in assists. And they're getting contributions from a bunch of surprising people (see above re. Howard).

That said, your point is correct: it's a long season. Without Bradley on the floor, they need Kuzma to improve his defense (I suspect he can't or won't) and keep shooting well. They also need one of KCP, Rondo, or Caruso to start (in the case of KCP or Rondo) or keep (in the case of Caruso) playing well, and I think that's too much to ask. And they need Howard to remain engaged and willing to accept his role (could happen as long as the team is happy; unlikely to happen the second the team, meaning LeBron, gets frustrated).

All of which is to say, what everybody knew to be true before the season still is true: this is an incredibly thin team that's going to need some good fortune to keep playing at a high level. Regardless, it's been fun so far.

[Jaybee]

Your 5(ish) man MVP watch as of 12/2/19:

(all stats BBRef)

1) Giannis: 2nd in VORP, 2nd in Box +/-, 1st in Defensive WS, 4th in Offensive WS, Bucks are 17-3 with a 10.3 Net Rating (1st) Narrative: Best player on the best team

2) Luka Doncic: 1st in VORP, 1st in Box +/-, bad in Defensive WS, 2nd in Offensive WS, Mavs are 13-6 with a 7.7 Net Rating (3rd) Narrative: the kid is for real.

3) LeBron: 4th in VORP, 4th in Box +/-, 6th in Defensive WS, 4th in Offensive WS, Lakers are 17-3 with a 7.6 Net Rating;. Narrative: the king is back.

4) Harden: 3rd in VORP, 3rd in Box +/-, bad in Defensive WS, 1st in Offensive WS, Rockets are 13-6 with a 5.3 Net Rating;. Narrative: unguardable - best offensive player since Jordan.

5) Others, in conversations to be on the ballot but won't win, in no particular order: KAT, Anthony Davis, Pascal Siakam.

[denapista]

How are we really talking about MVP after 20 games? Really?

[jtakeda]

Originally Posted by Jaybee

Your 5(ish) man MVP watch as of 12/2/19:

(all stats BBRef)

1) Giannis: 2nd in VORP, 2nd in Box +/-, 1st in Defensive WS, 4th in Offensive WS, Bucks are 17-3 with a 10.3 Net Rating (1st) Narrative: Best player on the best team

2) Luka Doncic: 1st in VORP, 1st in Box +/-, bad in Defensive WS, 2nd in Offensive WS, Mavs are 13-6 with a 7.7 Net Rating (3rd) Narrative: the kid is for real.

3) LeBron: 4th in VORP, 4th in Box +/-, 6th in Defensive WS, 4th in Offensive WS, Lakers are 17-3 with a 7.6 Net Rating;. Narrative: the king is back.

4) Harden: 3rd in VORP, 3rd in Box +/-, bad in Defensive WS, 1st in Offensive WS, Rockets are 13-6 with a 5.3 Net Rating;. Narrative: unguardable - best offensive player since Jordan.

5) Others, in conversations to be on the ballot but won't win, in no particular order: KAT, Anthony Davis, Pascal Siakam.

I gotta say,. Doncic is a lot better than I expected. obviously he was a top prospect in the draft but I thought he was over rated. He’d plug into any team and have solid stats. I don’t see how he could fall out of the top 3 for mvp voting

[Jaybee]

Originally Posted by denapista

How are we really talking about MVP after 20 games? Really?

Because i'm an NBA obsessive, i think it's an interesting conversation, and I think the first 1/4 of the season should inform the award just as much as the last 1/4. It's just a mechanism to talk about the season so far. Don't engage if you don't care?

[Jaybee]

Originally Posted by jtakeda

I gotta say,. Doncic is a lot better than I expected. obviously he was a top prospect in the draft but I thought he was over rated. He’d plug into any team and have solid stats. I don’t see how he could fall out of the top 3 for mvp voting

I figured his ceiling was best player on a champion and potential MVP - I did not think he'd be there until he was 24 or 25.

[XXtwindad]

Originally Posted by Jaybee

Your 5(ish) man MVP watch as of 12/2/19:

(all stats BBRef)

1) Giannis: 2nd in VORP, 2nd in Box +/-, 1st in Defensive WS, 4th in Offensive WS, Bucks are 17-3 with a 10.3 Net Rating (1st) Narrative: Best player on the best team

2) Luka Doncic: 1st in VORP, 1st in Box +/-, bad in Defensive WS, 2nd in Offensive WS, Mavs are 13-6 with a 7.7 Net Rating (3rd) Narrative: the kid is for real.

3) LeBron: 4th in VORP, 4th in Box +/-, 6th in Defensive WS, 4th in Offensive WS, Lakers are 17-3 with a 7.6 Net Rating;. Narrative: the king is back.

4) Harden: 3rd in VORP, 3rd in Box +/-, bad in Defensive WS, 1st in Offensive WS, Rockets are 13-6 with a 5.3 Net Rating;. Narrative: unguardable - best offensive player since Jordan.

5) Others, in conversations to be on the ballot but won't win, in no particular order: KAT, Anthony Davis, Pascal Siakam.

I'd say that's a pretty fair assessment. Hard to see how Giannis doesn't win it again if the Bucks finish with the best record. If they don't, assuming everything else remains the same, LBJ will probably get it again. Although it should go to Doncic. But he's probably too "green" for most voters.

[denapista]

Originally Posted by Jaybee

Because i'm an NBA obsessive, i think it's an interesting conversation, and I think the first 1/4 of the season should inform the award just as much as the last 1/4. It's just a mechanism to talk about the season so far. Don't engage if you don't care?

Asking that question was engaging, if you didn't notice. You responded to my question... Forums are about conversing.

I just think it's too premature to talk about MVP after 20 games. Stats fall off and then you have injuries etc... The list above is pretty much where the league MVP is going to come from.. in the current NBA, there are a handful of guys who can consistently put up those kinds of numbers and hold down a team, which is the real meaning of the MVP..

[Jaybee]

I find looking at it so early interesting because we can compare and update our priors. Who thought Doncic belonged here preseason? About half of NBA knowers thought LeBron would be rejuvenated and half thought he was washed and AD was their best player. You can’t discuss those things without discussing how good Dallas has been or how good LAL has been, esp on defense, which goes hand in hand with LeBrons effort on that side. The conversation about MVP is a conversation about the league.

[denapista]

Luka came into the league with a game that was tailored into the current wave of players. It was obvious he had a high basketball IQ from the onset of last season. He has a pure shooters touch, and his step back is underrated IMHO. People thinking Lebron is washed, is insane talk. There's no one who can physically dominate and easily get to the rack in the league, outside of LBJ. I don't know anyone who can easily get a layup like Lebron. If refs called tick tack fouls in his favor, he would average 20 free throws a game. Kobe and MJ got to the free throw line, as does Harden.

Only thing I want to admit, is that I was wrong about Melo. Almost 2 years of no runs have given his old legs life. He's back to playing bully ball, which is what I thought was his best attribute as a player. Getting the rack with his body and to the line.

I used to be a die hard NBA nut, but the desire to sit and watch TV has waned. I still pay deep attention. Basketball will always be my 1st love.

[Jaybee]

So the Rockets definitely got jobbed last night - that Harden dunk should have counted, and in a purely additive world would have been the difference between a win and a loss, but....

...impossible to say what would have happened with different score/time scenario

... refs miss calls all the time - not sure why this one is terribly different than a phantom foul that awards 2 FTs that shouldnt be or a missed travel in front of a scoring move.

... it's the Rockets, so it's hard to have sympathy for the "well, akshually" types behind that memo to the league (these are the calls that were missed and our assigned point value which means we won) following the 2018 WCF.

Maybe don't lose a 20 point lead to the Lonnie Walker Spurs before you lose your **** over one call.

[denapista]

A missed dunk with 7:30 left in the game, and you're up by 13 points, had an effect on the game????

That's the most insane thing I've heard. Houston blew the game, not a dunk with almost 8 minutes left in the game.

Stephen A said it was the most non story - story EVER in the NBA.

[Jaybee]

Originally Posted by denapista

A missed dunk with 7:30 left in the game, and you're up by 13 points, had an effect on the game????

That's the most insane thing I've heard. Houston blew the game, not a dunk with almost 8 minutes left in the game.

Stephen A said it was the most non story - story EVER in the NBA.

The Houston Rockets would very very much like to speak to a manager.

[ernmony]

Originally Posted by junkfood

While Old English fonts can be difficult to read, I think the words Los Angeles are recognizable enough to still be readable at a glance.

As far as all the Draymond discussion, we will see if his playmaking is still raved about when he is not surrounded by 2 to 4 all stars.

Jake

LAC logo was done by the legendary tattoo artist, Mr. Cartoon: