OT: Pappy 25---would you take a shot?

[pdmtong]

Originally Posted by josephr

well, mf GF and I decided to put our names in the hat and if we're fortunate to score a bottle or two of PVW (they list it as PVW25 on the ABC website), we're gonna flip and take a vacation or something.

pdmtong - we've got 2-3 breweries here that run in old converted factories/warehouses...Good People and Back Forty --- go to GP for beers, go to BF for food. There's a few others here, but those are the most accommodating.

It's not easy to flip booze here. With prices so high and potentially suspect provenance finding someone to give me $1600 is no easy task. The liquor laws wont let me "sell Back" a bottle to a local store for auction. Wine yes, distilled spirits no.

The place I was thinking about was Avondale.

Originally Posted by ScottW

I would have no better shot at limited release bottles with private liquor stores; it's more about price & selection for the daily dram type stuff. My office is up in MD where there is a wider selection (although it may require visiting multiple stores) and pretty consistently ~25% lower prices.
Near my in-laws' place in IL they sell booze in Costco. I about crapped myself when I walked down that aisle, everything they stock was priced 30-40% lower than in VA. The ABC is a total racket.

Private stores doing lotteries...right. I think those bottles go to best customers or big dollar accounts. The lottery is a sham.

As for Costco, that's right. Prices are the best or right in line if they have what you want.

[Cantdog]

If you can get PVW23 at retail I’d grab a bottle, it’s good, but I’m in the camp it’s not great. I’d buy it at retail to trade for what I like more. I think it’s overoaked, and there are lots of other bourbons that I’d reach for first. I’ve had a pour of the 25 and it wasn’t good.

Last time I was able to get Pappy at retail was about 5 years ago. I luckily have bunkered a lot of stuff I love that I’m now working through, last bourbon I bought was about 8 months ago via foreign auction. It’s gotten much more difficult to get auction deals now, sadly.

If I had some PVW23 still I’d mail you an ounce sample. The last time I had a bottle I used it some for manhattans...so that should tell you how much the landscape has changed over the last 10 years, ha.

[redir]

Originally Posted by ScottW

Here in VA it's all run by the ABC and they do online lotteries for the small allotment whiskies. If you're picked they will send your bottle to whichever ABC store you designate, so at least you don't have to drive very far. Of course, I've put my name in for a bunch of lotteries but have never gotten picked. Odds are total crap. The entire state will get sometimes a half-dozen bottles, sometimes 300 bottles depending what it is, and always thousands of entries. Odds range from a small fraction of a percent to maybe 1-2% for the less rare/in-demand bottles.

A few years ago we had a governor who seemed well on the way towards privatizing the liquor stores. Then he got caught up in some corruption scandal involving him and/or his wife receiving gifts from their home re-modeler who was also bidding on state contracts, something like that. Got convicted but later had it overturned in federal court. Too late, momentum towards liquor privatization was lost and it remains in the clutches of the state bureau-cleptocracy.

I would have no better shot at limited release bottles with private liquor stores; it's more about price & selection for the daily dram type stuff. My office is up in MD where there is a wider selection (although it may require visiting multiple stores) and pretty consistently ~25% lower prices.
Near my in-laws' place in IL they sell booze in Costco. I about crapped myself when I walked down that aisle, everything they stock was priced 30-40% lower than in VA. The ABC is a total racket.

YEah it seems to come up every election cycle now. It is a total racket. The government should not be in the liquor business taking away the potential for some entrepreneurial citizens who can run a good business for themselves.

I rarely walk into an ABC store these days but I do use Everclear for French Polish shellac finishes and you cannot even get that in Virginia. Least not at my local ABC's anyway.

[pdmtong]

Originally Posted by Cantdog

If you can get PVW23 at retail I’d grab a bottle, it’s good, but I’m in the camp it’s not great. I’d buy it at retail to trade for what I like more. I think it’s overoaked, and there are lots of other bourbons that I’d reach for first. I’ve had a pour of the 25 and it wasn’t good.

Last time I was able to get Pappy at retail was about 5 years ago. I luckily have bunkered a lot of stuff I love that I’m now working through, last bourbon I bought was about 8 months ago via foreign auction. It’s gotten much more difficult to get auction deals now, sadly.

If I had some PVW23 still I’d mail you an ounce sample. The last time I had a bottle I used it some for manhattans...so that should tell you how much the landscape has changed over the last 10 years, ha.

these are all trophy bottles for people with more money than experience. they fall into the older is better older is more expensive so older must be the best camp. I have a friend with a bunker...he too uses PVW for his manhattans. Pretty tasty I must say.

in the same vein as the PVW madness, so too is the weller madness. and I am not talking about BTACs but the no longer found on the shelf weller special reserve, 107 and 12yo.

[thegunner]

ugh, pappy is one of the white whales in my collection. that said, if anyone has a line and wants to help out a fellow paceliner... let me know, doesn't have to be the 25 either

[MattTuck]

What's wrong with a $27 bottle of Buffalo Trace, I say. Buy, drink, enjoy. Repeat.

No tears, no gnashing of teeth and no financial advisor required, and no need to appraise your bourbon collection for insurance purposes.

[bigbill]

Originally Posted by pdmtong

I am not talking about BTACs but the no longer found on the shelf weller special reserve, 107 and 12yo.

I have had Weller 12 and it was very good. I think it was $200/bottle. But I also like Maker's Mark. And with Scotch, I'm happy with Monkey Shoulder.

[Cantdog]

Originally Posted by pdmtong

these are all trophy bottles for people with more money than experience. they fall into the older is better older is more expensive so older must be the best camp. I have a friend with a bunker...he too uses PVW for his manhattans. Pretty tasty I must say.

in the same vein as the PVW madness, so too is the weller madness. and I am not talking about BTACs but the no longer found on the shelf weller special reserve, 107 and 12yo.

I lived not far from the Willet distillery so would go down pretty regularly and pick up their more aged releases. Funny, when I left KY you couldn’t even get Weller SR, which is an ok rail bourbon but not much else. It’s easier to find allocated bottles in MA than it is in KY.

I do miss the days of PVW sitting on shelves, REALLY good 4Roses picks, aged Willet bottles that weren’t priced 100$ a year, and going to yard sales and buying old stashes. It was fun while it lasted...

[tylercheung]

I thought finding Weller would be easy, the $20/bottle version of Pappy but that's all sold out too. But there's so many good whiskey labels, not worth spending large amounts of money on Pappy...

[Mr. Pink]

Another reason nobody has any money for retirement.

[pdonk]

Living in a place that allocates by lottery, I enter every year. The closest I have gotten to getting a bottle of pappy is a bottle of old rip van winkle.

I kind of wish I had sold the Old Rip instead of drinking it. It has an auction value of about $1000 CAD. It is good, but not that good.

if I were to win a bottle of the pappy in the allocation lottery I would definitely put it up for auction, and take the money and buy a single shot. Auction here is pretty easy, as Waddington's does them 2-3 times a year.

Recent auction price of $3600 cad for a bottle of 23 yr old is too great of a return on the $300 purchase price.

[CAAD]

Originally Posted by MattTuck

What's wrong with a $27 bottle of Buffalo Trace, I say. Buy, drink, enjoy. Repeat.

No tears, no gnashing of teeth and no financial advisor required, and no need to appraise your bourbon collection for insurance purposes.

This 100%

[redir]

BTW with prices that high I'd be very weary of counterfeits.

[ojingoh]

I've had the 23, the 20 and the 15 - I'm with pdmtong, to me it's the best of the range, but it's not 'the best'. I think PVW/Julian Van Winkle's best are his ryes.

My daily is Eagle Rare 10 or Elmer Lee.


If you're flush, go for it. Keep in mind Bourbon is not as widely collected as Single Malt. I have also never met anyone who seriously collected high end blended malts, Canadian Whiskey, Tennessee Whiskey, Kentucky Rye or Japanese Whisky. I don't speculate but if I did, I'd load up on Single Malts instead.

[pdmtong]

Originally Posted by ojingoh

I've had the 23, the 20 and the 15 - I'm with pdmtong, to me it's the best of the range, but it's not 'the best'. I think PVW/Julian Van Winkle's best are his ryes.

My daily is Eagle Rare 10 or Elmer Lee.

If you're flush, go for it. Keep in mind Bourbon is not as widely collected as Single Malt. I have also never met anyone who seriously collected high end blended malts, Canadian Whiskey, Tennessee Whiskey, Kentucky Rye or Japanese Whisky. I don't speculate but if I did, I'd load up on Single Malts instead.

The irony of all this is that I got into bourbon because the prices of single malt started moving up a lot. I don't regret not backing up the truck for PVW since of course who knew it would be priced up as well. There was no reason to buy six bottles fo $80 bourbon when you could get something daily for $20. I remember the case of weller 12 I sold back to the LBS because I was just tired of mixing/drinking it. I haven't seen weller on the shelf in five+ years

Now I look at my single malts and think the same thing...fark once these are done that's it. For instance there is no more age statement laphroiag. why didnt I buy that Laph 40 for $399 years ago? Because it was $399 and that was a lot then.

Japanese whiskey has been priced up too and age statements have disappeared. That Hibiki 17 I bought at Costco for $115 is around $500-600 on many sites. Should have bought more yamazaki 18 as well. oh well.

Yes, The Pappy Rye is terrific...