OT - Dow plunges 1,175 - worst point decline in history

[Big Dan]

Originally Posted by jlwdm

I am a believer that you make your own breaks and success. There are good jobs available in good times and bad if you look hard enough for them. If someone wants to stay more in the masses that is fine. They might be in a job with fewer hours worked and less stress coupled with more family time or time to do other things like biking. Money should not be the only consideration of a job. But you can't normally have regular hours and a job with lower stress and make a lot of money.

Personally I want a job where I am compensated for my performance.

Unfortunately, I am a spender. I made decent money for most of my life, but when I hit a retirement age I did not have near enough money to retire. I started working for myself and worked a ridiculous number of hours, but I saved enough to never worry about money for retirement. I still work though. A lot of people would not have wanted to commit the time to working that I did, and probably would have lived better lives in many ways during those years.

Life has many trade offs. Everyone needs to figure out the things that are most important in life to them. The problem is we are such a country of consumers that it is harder for people to save. We buy so many things that are not needed I am as bad as anyone in this regard.

We need to gravitate towards the more traditional European lifestyle of buying fewer things, but quality items that are passed down from generation to generation. I don't see it happening though. Probably not happening as much anymore in Europe either.

Jeff

Yeah buddy.
I'm talking about the trickle down effect.
Supply side economics, whatever you want to call it.
Make it fair for everybody.
I'm not talking about handouts.

[saab2000]

Originally Posted by Big Dan

Yeah buddy.
I'm talking about the trickle down effect.
Supply side economics, whatever you want to call it.
Make it fair for everybody.
I'm not talking about handouts.

To improve prosperity we need to improve education; all kinds of education. And we need to teach basic finance in high school. It should be mandatory.

I'm not a member of any political movement or party so take what I'm going to say at face value and don't ascribe it to any leanings I may or may not have.

People need to make better choices. I've been out of college since 1990 and have never been without work. Why? Because I'll do any work. There are jobs, in good times and bad. Some of it requires odd hours. Most of requires passing a drug test. Some of it is crappy work. But it is there and allowed me to always pay my rent and save. I haven't always worked for a major airline making good money. Far from it.

I don't waste it on video games and cable TV and cruises and other stuff I can't afford when I don't have the money. I'll spend it when I have it. But my basic needs have always been met because I made the choices to make that happen and avoided the choices that would destroy opportunities.

We, as a society, will make better decisions about our lives if we have better education and financial education is a part of that. People do need to take some responsibility for their own situations. My nephew is working hard in high school and plans his college education in such a way that he'll finish with very little or zero debt. It can be done. It just takes discipline and good decision making skills. Yes, I understand that millions of Americans have no guidance from parents or elders who care. They are at a true disadvantage.

[earlfoss]

Originally Posted by saab2000

To improve prosperity we need to improve education; all kinds of education. And we need to teach basic finance in high school. It should be mandatory.

I'm not a member of any political movement or party so take what I'm going to say at face value and don't ascribe it to any leanings I may or may not have.

People need to make better choices. I've been out of college since 1990 and have never been without work. Why? Because I'll do any work. There are jobs, in good times and bad. Some of it requires odd hours. Most of requires passing a drug test. Some of it is crappy work. But it is there and allowed me to always pay my rent and save. I haven't always worked for a major airline making good money. Far from it.

I don't waste it on video games and cable TV and cruises and other stuff I can't afford when I don't have the money. I'll spend it when I have it. But my basic needs have always been met because I made the choices to make that happen and avoided the choices that would destroy opportunities.

We, as a society, will make better decisions about our lives if we have better education and financial education is a part of that. People do need to take some responsibility for their own situations. My nephew is working hard in high school and plans his college education in such a way that he'll finish with very little or zero debt. It can be done. It just takes discipline and good decision making skills. Yes, I understand that millions of Americans have no guidance from parents or elders who care. They are at a true disadvantage.

There are entire industries that would collapse if people became financially aware and responsible!

I'm all for it though. I wish I had some education like this when I was young. Took me until I was in college to truly learn on my own.

[saab2000]

Originally Posted by earlfoss

There are entire industries that would collapse if people became financially aware and responsible!

I'm all for it though. I wish I had some education like this when I was young. Took me until I was in college to truly learn on my own.

And the world would be a better place if those industries collapsed. And speaking of learning this stuff, I've been trying to enlighten people on just basics of saving (like automating it each month, even if it's 1%) and the value of time WRT compounding interest.

I got religion on this way after college and I've been extremely aggressive over the past 12 years or so. I probably first got clarity on this as I approached 40 years of age. Catching up has been a struggle, but I am on track at the moment after reading hundreds of articles on retirement savings and the financial world and acting on that informal education.

[cachagua]

We need to gravitate towards [a] lifestyle of buying fewer things, but quality items that are passed down from generation to generation...

There are entire industries that would collapse if we did this, too.

Not that I'm saying it's a bad idea; I tend to make my purchasing choices on this basis. But if everybody began to, all of a sudden, the consequences would make 2008 look like nothing.

Microelectronics, just to start with: it's foundational to that entire industry that everything it produces gets thrown away within a year. A great business strategy, but the greatness ends there.

But maybe, once the newness wore off, the world would be a better place...

[jlwdm]

Originally Posted by saab2000

...

We, as a society, will make better decisions about our lives if we have better education and financial education is a part of that...

My parents grew up in the depression and were very frugal. One house for over 50 years, the most basic cars and few possessions. It was important to them that my sisters and I went to college because they did not have that opportunity.

I majored in accounting but still was not very financially responsible. Maybe a reaction to how frugal my parents were.

Jeff

[echappist]

Originally Posted by saab2000

To improve prosperity we need to improve education; all kinds of education. And we need to teach basic finance in high school. It should be mandatory.

I'm not a member of any political movement or party so take what I'm going to say at face value and don't ascribe it to any leanings I may or may not have.

People need to make better choices. I've been out of college since 1990 and have never been without work. Why? Because I'll do any work. There are jobs, in good times and bad. Some of it requires odd hours. Most of requires passing a drug test. Some of it is crappy work. But it is there and allowed me to always pay my rent and save. I haven't always worked for a major airline making good money. Far from it.

I don't waste it on video games and cable TV and cruises and other stuff I can't afford when I don't have the money. I'll spend it when I have it. But my basic needs have always been met because I made the choices to make that happen and avoided the choices that would destroy opportunities.

We, as a society, will make better decisions about our lives if we have better education and financial education is a part of that. People do need to take some responsibility for their own situations. My nephew is working hard in high school and plans his college education in such a way that he'll finish with very little or zero debt. It can be done. It just takes discipline and good decision making skills. Yes, I understand that millions of Americans have no guidance from parents or elders who care. They are at a true disadvantage.

agreed on all of this. we should look toward Germany on how a capitalistic society should be run. Technical education is not frowned upon there, and skilled labor jobs are plentiful. Laborers are looked upon as assets: people to be trained in order to produce value-added products. Unlike the U.S., where "shareholder" value has become the predominant focus of how a company operates, labor actually gets seats in the board room.

As another poster wrote, no one wants handouts, but we should also not settle for a 90:10 split between profits going toward shareholders: profit to employees and call it good. Things are rarely tenable on the extremes, a more fair distribution of profits (viz. increase in wages, cf. share buybacks and increased dividends) may have greater social good in the long term.

as an aside and anecdote, it was said that the Aldi brothers are some of the most miserly German industrialists; however, even Aldi treat their employees better than most American companies do

Originally Posted by earlfoss

There are entire industries that would collapse if people became financially aware and responsible!

I'm all for it though. I wish I had some education like this when I was young. Took me until I was in college to truly learn on my own.

yep, cough cough, Edward Jones, cough cough, taking 1% fees under management...

that whole tranche of companies basically fit the Upton Sinclair quote that [i]t is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends upon his not understanding it!”

[oldpotatoe]

To improve prosperity we need to improve education; all kinds of education. And we need to teach basic finance in high school. It should be mandatory.

NO doubt about it...instead of $70BILLION MORE to an already bloated military or $80million and counting for golf outings..PLUS, 2019 is on tap for $1TRILLION added to the national debt..damn little for education..The Sec of Education..somebody 'new' that cares about this, understands the problem, isn't interested in filing the bank accounts of her special interest buddies(read-charter school lobby), should be seated NEXT to POTUS, not in the cheap seats...the priorities in the US is AFU.

[SPOKE]

Originally Posted by saab2000

To improve prosperity we need to improve education; all kinds of education. And we need to teach basic finance in high school. It should be mandatory.

I'm not a member of any political movement or party so take what I'm going to say at face value and don't ascribe it to any leanings I may or may not have.

People need to make better choices. I've been out of college since 1990 and have never been without work. Why? Because I'll do any work. There are jobs, in good times and bad. Some of it requires odd hours. Most of requires passing a drug test. Some of it is crappy work. But it is there and allowed me to always pay my rent and save. I haven't always worked for a major airline making good money. Far from it.

I don't waste it on video games and cable TV and cruises and other stuff I can't afford when I don't have the money. I'll spend it when I have it. But my basic needs have always been met because I made the choices to make that happen and avoided the choices that would destroy opportunities.

We, as a society, will make better decisions about our lives if we have better education and financial education is a part of that. People do need to take some responsibility for their own situations. My nephew is working hard in high school and plans his college education in such a way that he'll finish with very little or zero debt. It can be done. It just takes discipline and good decision making skills. Yes, I understand that millions of Americans have no guidance from parents or elders who care. They are at a true disadvantage.

👍.......personal responsibility. I’d really like to see much more financial education taught starting in junior high school even if it’s nothing more than beating the compounding formula into the kids heads.

[echappist]

Originally Posted by SPOKE

👍.......personal responsibility. I’d really like to see much more financial education taught starting in junior high school even if it’s nothing more than beating the compounding formula into the kids heads.

well, compounding and save at least 15% of one's paycheck

and as a continuation of @saab2000's point, we should stop telling kids at commencements to chase their dreams and follow their interests, worse, having people who survived the odds to tell kids to chase their dreams and follow their interest. While doing so in one's 20's is fine, one's gotta be realistic in one's 30s and 40s. I have a colleague in her 50s who took an almost 40% pay cut to work somewhere that pays lower, b/c the new job suits her interest better. Sure, do that if you are financially set, but i doubt she'll ever be able to retire

that said, while I begrudgingly would advocate for personal responsibility, let's not pretend that there aren't numerous hucksters out there hustling the gullible of their money...

[Burnette]

I agree on the personal responsibility and education fronts. Yes, even the masses can benefit from the market. If you start saving when you start working, at the end the results can be quite amazing.

The fact that the average 401k balance is low isn't because the program is faulty or that the market is infair, it's because people started late and/or didn't put in enough. Sans life events that can bring anyone of us down we all make choices. I maxed out with my 401k contributions early on in life, even when it hurt, even recently when my wife was out of work for over a year. She's working now but no vacation this year as we recover, sacrifices, choices made.

During our marriage there were a few times she made more but I have more saved for the pair by far even outside of our 401k accounts. Given the same resources people will make choices and have to live with the results.

Some people are fat for genetic reasons, health issues, poor food source opportunities and such and some just eat too much. If you're not blighted with health or environmental setbacks and do things to stay healthy through grit and sacrifice you can be fit. And so it is with money. I work with people who have been in employ as long as me and yet have next to nothing set aside for retirement. It has nothing to do with trickle down or market fairness. I'll make twice as much in retirement as I make today by going with all stock in index funds since I started(that allocation ratio will change in a few years).

Personal responsibility and education. But even with that people will get fat, not save, do drugs, drink too much, etc... we all make choices. My heart goes out to those befallen to illness, nasty divorce and accidents. Anything can happen to any of us but you put the work in and the money in first and foremost.

[echappist]

Bump

[kppolich]

Yet another classic overreaction that will cause some folks to panic and sell when nothing has actually changed in the world in the past month.

Those wise enough to have some money set aside for times like these will profit in the long run. Others who overreacted and knee-jerked will lose long-term once again.

Big earnings week coming up, sit tight and enjoy the ride.

FB looks like a prime-time buy ahead of 10/30 earnings at Market Close.

[Big Dan]

No surprises.

[seanile]

for added perspective. the one year history of the Dow.