Silca limited-edition chain lube

[RoosterCogset]

Originally Posted by weiwentg

I think on the other thread, Absolute Black implied that they were not using alcohol and didn't think much of the concept. I think I've read that Smoove and Squirt are water-based. I think White Lightning's dry lube may be in an alcohol carrier, but that's a terrible lube.

I didn't notice they made any mention in that thread specific to Pedro's Slick Wax. (not to be confused with their Ice Wax which is water based I believe).

[joshatsilca]

Originally Posted by weiwentg

Adam Kerin is lab testing the drip lube now, and he says it’s looking very good. He completed the first of 5 blocks of testing. He just lubes a clean chain in block 1, lets it run, then measures the wear. Silca’s drip lube seems to be the lowest wear rate of all the drip lubes he’s tested. He adds contamination in the subsequent blocks. Anyway, I think he measured the chain at 2.9% worn in that block, which beats Ceramicspeed’s UFO stuff and Tru Tension.

His post did say that the lube tends to slide off the chain, and that’s been my experience also. I’ve had some trouble evenly applying lube on each roller. Josh did say to massage the lube into the chain, and I’m doing so.

I think that the immersion tub of lube would really help with the issue of lube sliding off. The thing is, by now, you really are almost all the way to hot melt wax.

If I went back in time, I think I’d just get MSW. It is half the price of Silca’s wax or so. Now, Kerin notes that Silca’s drip lube should be a great top up lube for molten wax. The drip lube’s alcohol base seems to help it penetrate the chain better than the water base that Squirt and Smoove use.

So our lube IS water based and NOT alcohol based.. we just add a bit of alcohol to the final product to promote wicking into the chain and also to accelerate evaporation. Our testing showed that the full water based waxes could not be optimized to both penetrate and then stay in place long enough to harden. Using an alcohol as a viscosity modifier and evaporation accelerator seemed to be a solid solution to both problems allowing the lube to get in there, and also then start hardening more quickly, but the base of the emulsion is still water as you can't get wax to emulsify into alcohol.

Compared to 'dry lubes' like white lightning, we are using an simple alcohol which is environmentally safe, totally neutral to the wax and tungsten and gets a 'zero' on the SDS where many of them are using hexane or similar which is way less friendly, though is much faster evaporating.. Also, our lube is just a few % alcohol as we are using it to tweak these other characteristics out at the margins, whereas many of these other dry lubes are over 90% solvent.

[weiwentg]

Originally Posted by joshatsilca

So our lube IS water based and NOT alcohol based.. we just add a bit of alcohol to the final product to promote wicking into the chain and also to accelerate evaporation. Our testing showed that the full water based waxes could not be optimized to both penetrate and then stay in place long enough to harden. Using an alcohol as a viscosity modifier and evaporation accelerator seemed to be a solid solution to both problems allowing the lube to get in there, and also then start hardening more quickly, but the base of the emulsion is still water as you can't get wax to emulsify into alcohol.

Compared to 'dry lubes' like white lightning, we are using an simple alcohol which is environmentally safe, totally neutral to the wax and tungsten and gets a 'zero' on the SDS where many of them are using hexane or similar which is way less friendly, though is much faster evaporating.. Also, our lube is just a few % alcohol as we are using it to tweak these other characteristics out at the margins, whereas many of these other dry lubes are over 90% solvent.

I stand corrected. Thanks for the clarification! I had got into my head that you used an alcohol base, and then I started wondering how you were different from White Lightning ... which I did use for my Speedplay cleats, it was good for those for sure.

[oldguy00]

Much difference between the silca product and the molten speed wax product (assuming you are using the silca product that you dip the chain in)?

[joshatsilca]

Originally Posted by oldguy00

Much difference between the silca product and the molten speed wax product (assuming you are using the silca product that you dip the chain in)?

We have a hot melt wax that is more directly comparable to MSW in terms of application except we use Tungsten Disulfide instead of Molybdenum Disulfide, that product tests slight faster (0.1-0.2w) than MSW in our testing. It also comes in a bag that you can boil to melt the wax if you don't already have a dedicated crock pot.

Our drip wax tests just 0.2 watts slower than MSW (~0.3-0.4w slower than our hot wax). Since the liquid wax has a carrier that dries, it can never fully fill the chain as much as the hot wax.. so even if you immerse and get 100% penetration with the liquid (as ZeroFriction showed us was possible!) the evaporation of the carrier will leave you more like 92% full of wax in the end. With hot melt, 100% is 100% so the differences are small, but measurable.

[fiamme red]

How to Hot Melt Wax Your Bicycle Chain: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m3uSbNjI53Y.

[weiwentg]

Josh posted this update on the chain lube over at Slowtwitch yesterday:

We are just a few days out from Adam at ZeroFrictionCycling posting his report on the stuff, and wanted to update everybody on some things we learned during his testing. First of all, lowest wear EVER for a drip lube... and of course, first drip wax to fully penetrate as he has previously reported. We are lowest wearing drip by far in blocks 1-3 including dusty-sandy conditions. However, we got some interesting wet results, which were still good, but not as good as we hoped, though looks like we will still rank as the lowest cost per KM lube, best dry performance, etc.. I'll let Adam explain in his update, but it seems that our initial stated cure time was just not enough to allow the lube inside the chain to fully harden, which was good enough to be the best drip lube in ever in dry conditions, but in wet, it was allowing the water to penetrate and dilute the lube somewhat, making it only the 2nd or 3rd best ever ;-) A subsequent study here showed that we were just underestimating the drying time based on lab testing in ideal conditions and that in the real world of the garage, it is taking 12-24 hours to fully cure/dry and not the 2-8 hours we saw in the lab.

Anyway, we've updated our use guidance to include a minimum 12 hour cure in dry/warm conditions and 24 hour cure in cool or wet conditions. So if you are one of the people in cold wet climate who were experiencing spotty results, this is THE solution!! We now know that for the ZeroFriction testing we were only achieving about 75-80% cure and will be re-testing with Adam to see how much better we can be at full cure!

Cure data and other updates can be found here

[joshatsilca]

Further Update, Zero Friction report and data just landed

https://zerofrictioncycling.com.au/lubetesting/

[saab2000]

Just took delivery of the Hiro chuck. Seems very nice. Watched some videos and was taken aback by the reference to Dan C. at Grand Performance in St. Paul, MN.

He’s a decades-long good friend and riding partner and I was glad to hear about his endorsement of the classic Silca pumps.

[joshatsilca]

Originally Posted by saab2000

Just took delivery of the Hiro chuck. Seems very nice. Watched some videos and was taken aback by the reference to Dan C. at Grand Performance in St. Paul, MN.

He’s a decades-long good friend and riding partner and I was glad to hear about his endorsement of the classic Silca pumps.

Ha! Yes, Dan is truly one of the best people I've ever known.. working for him was transformative for me and how I viewed both small business, leadership, community involvement and more..

[fiamme red]

https://silca.cc/collections/pre-waxed-chains

What's the only thing faster than a SILCA Secret Blend treated chain? Start with a chain that's been polished in a diamond dust slurry for 72 hours, then dry impregnated with Tungsten Disulfide (WS2) before the hot wax treatment!!

Your average chain, shipped from the manufacturer will have a Rz surface roughness value of 8-12 micron (millionths of a meter). By Diamond Polishing the chain, we are able to reduce this roughness to a much more uniform 0.2-0.3 micron finish. This surface is then perfectly prepared to take on 0.4 micron WS2 particles in a dry-lubrication process which permanently impregnates the surface of the metal with WS2 particles. THEN, we apply SILCA Secret Blend in an ultrasonic hot melt process which allows the wax to be loaded with 2x as many WS2 particles as traditional Secret Blend.

The result? Up to 30% lower running friction than other prepared and waxed chains!

Bundles of pre-waxed chains and Secret Chain Blend Hot Melt Wax are available.

[AngryScientist]

yikes.

i suppose if you are racing at the very highest level, or really, really need to shave .0001 milliseconds off your TT time, but spending between 250 and 350 for a single chain just seems wasteful on a number of levels.

maybe you could make a nice necklace out of it when it's worn out, certainly you cant just throw out a $350 chain!

[pelicanrando]

In theory, it should last for a really long time if cared for.

[charliedid]

It just keeps getting weirder and weirder all the time.

[pdonk]

Breaking down the cost of a Dura Ace Chain bundle priced at $235:

Dura ace Chain $ 55
Bag of wax $40
Drip Wax $25
Cleaning Cloth $2

Total $122

The 72 hours in a tumbler and cleaning and applying wax - that extra $100 seems like a lot of money.

I bought a bag of the wax, and it is great, and was not that hard to clean and dip the chains.

I guess if you are lazy and don't want to do the first cleaning, it makes senses, but not really.

Reminds me I need to wax my chain again soon.